ESE's works engine tuner

[bucketracer]

Better spreads of power are made everyday with far less of the gubbins this poor old whipped mule has .....?

Year Right ......

OK the thinking mans solution for detonation on over run.



TeeZee it looks like you and Jan Thiel need an exhaust and/or variable transfers gubbin as discribed by Frits.

[husaberg]

Well Dave doesn't like it even though it is based on a Honda
I have linked it before but not with heaps of pics nicely sized to fit.







Maybe Frits or Jan could fill us in as it were on the Process Aprilia or Derbi used to seal the sandcast alloy casting they used i seen "Hippling" mentioned on the Pitlane thread

More precisely: HIP Heat Isostatic Pressing. This is an operation which is to penetrate at high temperature under high pressure into a casting, an alloy of zinc intended to fill all the pores so as to densify the original alloy.

1. Casting
2. HIP Treatment
3. T6 heat treatment
4. Machining
5. Nicasil plating

(i am of course assuming of course they were sandcast)
any info on other methods would be great i have seen other sealers mentioned as being petrol resistant and able be used on crankcases
i wonder how a fuel tank sealant likre petseal would go?

[Frits Overmars]

Maybe Frits or Jan could fill us in as it were on the Process Aprilia or Derbi used to seal the sandcast alloy casting they used i seen "Hippling" mentioned on the Pitlane thread

No need to shout Husa, I am wide awake. I don't know about hippling but in case you are also interested in hipping, take a look here: http://www.pressuretechnology.com/about-hip.php

[husaberg]

No need to shout Husa, I am wide awake. I don't know about hippling but in case you are also interested in hipping, take a look here: http://www.pressuretechnology.com/about-hip.php

Thanks google was not my friend in this case i tried as i hate asking questions that can be easily googled
but then again i only tried hippling.
Then went back to the pitlane thread to finish the post and check the spelling.Then seen HIP
the shouting was er... because you live a long way away.........
So it was still heat treated afterwards interesting was it mainly for Sealing or strength (probably both)

Had you tried any other methods or other sealing methods. Sand-casting by nature can be porous and i guess so can welding like above.
http://www.x-seal.co.uk/case_studies.html
three bond looks like it has one.
Loctite as well http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/290-EN.pdf
http://www.kbs-coatings.com/RustSeal.html
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/gly...k-cases.26761/

Obviously the HIP process is far superior.

[bucketracer]

Sand-casting by nature can be porous and i guess so can welding like above.
http://www.x-seal.co.uk/case_studies.html
three bond looks like it has one.
Loctite as well http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/290-EN.pdf
http://www.kbs-coatings.com/RustSeal.html
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/gly...k-cases.26761/

TeeZee has talked at work, about castings being vacuum impregnated with resin, TeeZee has a chamber and vacuum pump big enough for a crankcase half if anyone wants to try it.

[Frits Overmars]

Hipping is not about sealing at all. It is about improving the density and mechanical quality of the material. Impregnating will not do that.

[husaberg]

Hipping is not about sealing at all. It is about improving the density and mechanical quality of the material. Impregnating will not do that.

So no problems with porosity were encountered.
i see on the link you posted it mentioned sealing in the blub though.
I understand the density and mechanical quality hense why i said it hip was superior and was just going to add.
i guess the heat transfer would suffer with a sealer also, i assume, going back to your cooling.... cooling..... cooling...post ages ago

[bucketracer]

Hipping is not about sealing at all. It is about improving the density and mechanical quality of the material. Impregnating will not do that.

We had thought about casting our own cylinders but the integrity of the bore surface was a likely problem, it looks lik Hipping could help there.

TeeZee's vacuum impregnating was about sealing porosity's to make things air tight. Or so you didn't get virtual leaks when the object was used in a vacuum chamber. It might have application to crank cases and sealing porosity's in welds etc, like the cases Husa has been posting pictures of.

This has been topical here at work as there is some talk of converting a RG50 to rotary valve by poring molten aluminum into the left hand case and sealing it afterward by vacuum impregnating it with epoxy. The rotary valve inlet would then be machined into the new surface.

[bucketracer]

Here Husu, looks like something you were telling me about, lots of fining and a short exhaust tract to minimize heat uptake from the exhaust tract.

[Grumph]

We had thought about casting our own cylinders but the integrity of the bore surface was a likley problem, it looks lik Hipping could help there.

TeeZee's vacuum impregnating was about sealing porosity's to make things air tight. Or so you didn't get virtual leaks when the object was used in a vacuum chamber. It might have application to crank cases and sealing porosity's in welds etc, like the cases Husa has been posting pictures of.

This has been topical here at work as there is some talk of converting a RG50 to rotary valve by poring molten aluminum into the left hand case and sealing it afterward by vacuum impregnating it with epoxy. The rotary valve inlet would then be machined into the new surface.

Casting integrity is best achieved with pressure die casting. The "other" Ned Kelly in Timaru has been low pressure die casting pistons for years so it is possible in the home workshop. Hot isostatic pressing is not avilable in the Southern Hemisphere to my knowledge - but there was for years an outfit in Aussie doing high pressure resin sealing of castings...
An option for your case filling is metalspraying - whichever way you do it, it WILL distort so be prepared for that.

[bucketracer]

An option for your case filling is metalspraying - whichever way you do it, it WILL distort so be prepared for that.

Hadn't thought of metal spraying, thanks. For the molten pour we had planned on filling the inside of the case half with casting sand and screwing the case to a metal plate using the original case fastening holes.

[wobbly]

The hipping process works amazingly well.
We had the rapid prototype cast cylinders for the BSL500 hipped, and the CNC machining became super bright and smooth when it was done on the treated material.

[TZ350]

Suzuki never designed the GP125 for these types of performance figures; TZ (and the entire team ESE) has done some amazing work in a public space proving that it is possible to do to the poor old thing. SS90 has posed a couple of valid questions here (useful mainly for people thinking of following the ESE lead in building a GP125 racer). 30 Hp is achievable (following the great resources on this thread) but it may actually be pushing past the mechanical boundaries of the actual engine design; would 27-28 be the same?? and is it's overall performance ultimately limited by the 5 speed box??

Its early days for the 30+hp engine so I would definitely go for the more proven 26-28 hp engine and wait and see how the 30+hp one finishes up. The difference between them is only 72% vis 75% exhaust width and 80 vis 78.5 deg ATDC exhaust opening and head cc'd to match, everything else is pretty much the same.

Bucket posted links on page 500 to detailed posts on how ESE built the 26+ and 30+hp engines.


SS90’s

I have seen other similar shaped and very impressive graphs posted by SS90 with more hp but as far as I can make out from his posts, this one is his own work and from an engine similar to mine, 125cc air-cooled, 24mm carb and rotary valve.

SS90’s graph has a 2.5K power spread, the others at most, maybe 3K. Well if 2.5-3K is enough for SS90’s 4 speed Vespa with the big gap between third and forth, then my 4K power spread is plenty for the Suzuki’s closer ratio 5 speed. I dont think the 5 speed box is a limiting factor.

I think with its high torque and more width maybe 5-6K rpm to minimize gear changes the Vespa curve could be a winner. And I have already posted my ideas on how the Vespa approach can be extended into something really useful with a Trombone pipe. When we have got the ignition and mechanicals sorted we intend going there with the 30+ hp engine.


ESE 72% 80 ATDC 28hp

At 72% exhaust port width and ex opening 80 deg ATDC giving 26-28 hp the motor proved reliable and is probably a good place to aim for, its what the other ESE bikes are running but it doesn’t interest me, I want to explore a bit further than that.


TeeZees 75% 78.5 ATDC 30hp

31+ hp required a 75% exhaust port opening 78.5 deg ATDC, I ran into trouble here as the shape of the port is more critical at 75% and I had recycled an old damaged cylinder and got the shape wrong around the bottom of the port.



I think 75% is livable with careful shaping of the top and bottom of the port but 72% is definitely easier to do.

We had problems at Taupo and Kaitoki that we put down to inexperience developing the ignition curve on the dyno. And suffered engine killing detonation on lower throttle openings that we later put down to, a to advanced ignition with the throttle partially closed.

At the time, we didn't know you had to retard the ignition on partial throttle.

But now it seems it’s not just an ignition timing thing but an auto ignition problem too from residual hot gases left in the cylinder.

The following post covers some of the issues. This adventure just gets better and better.

[TZ350]

Jan Thiel. At part throttle there is less transfer flow, causing detonation (auto ignition)
The entering fresh charge is ignited by the remaining, hot, burned gases!
You can see very severe damage to the piston after maybe 10 seconds at 20% throttle.

A disadvantage of 'dynamic' testing. Because the duration of the test is so short you can get away with very extreme (too extreme?) settings, without damage.

(On closing the power valve)

This causes detonation (auto ignition) The problem is that the burned gases do not exit the cylinder! Retarding ignition also does not make sense. As you have an AUTO-ignition problem! So the engine does not 'listen' to its ECU any more!

I thought about cutting sparks. But remember: the problem is AUTO-ignition!

GrahamB retarding the ignition is used at high rpm to increase exhaust temps and effectively shorten the pipe. So it's likely to increase the heating of the front edge of the piston...

Jan Thiel Indeed, retarding too much caused detonation!

I was thinking about a way to reduce engine power without closing the throttle. But how can you do this?

Retarding the ignition was tried to diminish power.
This makes the exhaust very hot. Then, when you need full power, it is not there because the exhaust temperatures are wrong.

This takes a little time, when the engine is back to full power you are already at the end of the straight!

The same goes for water injection in the exhaust. There was a LOT more power at low revs, so the rider had to take it easy when opening the throttle
.
But the engine revved a little bit less, because the exhaust temperature did not recover at high revs. And lap times became actually slower. After a day of testing the system was switched off. Lap times immediately improved!

A very important thing when accelerating is the power you have after changing gear.
Spark interruption may be not so good for this! As I did not have the dyno I wanted this gearchange effect could not be tried on the dyno, very regrettably!

Retarding the ignition and weakening the mixture by powerjet can also have a negative effect on this.
The exhaust temperature should be 'Right' for the No. of revs after you change gear. If the temperature is too high there will be less power!

Frits Overmars
Like Jan wrote, a shorter exhaust duration will worsen the detonation. What happens is this:
During normal operation, the blowdown time area of the exhaust ports is sufficient to drop the cylinder pressure below the crankcase pressure before the transfer ports open, even at high rpm. At part-throttle that cylinder pressure will drop to the same level, but now the crankcase pressure is much lower and exhaust gases will enter the transfer ducts, contaminating and heating the fresh mixture even before it enters the cylinder.

[TZ350]

Previously Frits has suggested a way of working with this, I will look the post up.