ESE's works engine tuner

[richban]

Forget about 'a little'. Imagine coming down a long straight in gear 4C, braking at the limit for a hairpin and having to shift down to 2A. Or was it 1C? Or 2B? Or 3A?
Later Kreidler substituted the 4*3-box with a 6*2-box; also twelve speeds, but a little easier to keep count.
As a friend who rode these tiddlers, told me: "Most of the time I hadn't got a clue what gear I was in. All I needed to know is, how often to change down with my foot for a corner, and how to move the hand shifter. You had to get that into your head for every corner. And the tracks were a little longer then: the original Nürburgring had 187 corners..."

Amazing things them 50's. I wonder what we would have now if they were still racing at top level. GP level that is not buckets. Would you get by with just 8 gears. I wonder. I spent lots of time on 50's when I was a teenager. A50 CB MT GT MB RD.

[F5 Dave]

ahh some old killjoy would have made them 100cc diesels by now anyway,

I'm keeping the flag flying as much as I can.

[Frits Overmars]

Amazing things them 50's. I wonder what we would have now if they were still racing at top level. GP level that is not buckets. Would you get by with just 8 gears.

We would get by with 6 gears like we did in the 125 cc class until Dorna killed it last year. Don't be misled by the Aprilia's power valves. They were there because the same cylinders had to be used on the 250 twins, which would have been too vicious without them. The 125s did not really need them. And having many gears to cope with is a big disadvantage. Not only does each gearshift interrupt the power, bringing unwanted movement in the bike and distracting the rider, it also interrupts the gas dynamic processes in the engine which means full power won't be available right after each shift.

[Drew]

That pic of the engines is a nice diasembled is a nice example of why 2 strokes are so great esp when you compare it to this.(sorry couldn't find a 5

Prolly be a better visual comparison, with a single next to a single though aye. Possibly even a two stroke with power valves too, since the current four strokes have fewer parts these days, and the two strokes more.

[richban]

The 125s did not really need them. And having many gears to cope with is a big disadvantage. Not only does each gearshift interrupt the power, bringing unwanted movement in the bike and distracting the rider, it also interrupts the gas dynamic processes in the engine which means full power won't be available right after each shift.

Yes well I do think a good 4 speed box on a Kart track would be good. I use 5 on the local track but the ratios are crap. Looking into fixing that.

[F5 Dave]

On my 50 I use all 6 & still have to abuse seven shades out of the clutch.

but secretly I just like inflicting pain on small circular oil drenched machine parts.

[jasonu]

On my 50 I use all 6 & still have to abuse seven shades out of the clutch.

That is because you have a 206deg exhaust port...(among other things)

[TZ350]

... a nice example of why 2 strokes are so great ...

I always thought they had two carburetors so there was a symmetrical gas flow into the crankcases. But looking at the rotary valves one can be seen to have more extreme timing than the other so it looks like one carb was opened first then when the rev's were up I guess the other side with the radical timing was opened for top end and over rev.

[husaberg]

Prolly be a better visual comparison, with a single next to a single though aye. Possibly even a two stroke with power valves too, since the current four strokes have fewer parts these days, and the two strokes more.

It was a bit unfair, but the comparison was valid, as it was 1960's vs 1960's.
lt should have probably should have used this one though.

Although in fairness to the Honda they had pulled out by then and the completion for the title was the V4 Yam plus the rider and the handling of the Ossa was its secret weapon.

Below, for Rob. Note the builder .The way the twin carbs was done was better than the Factory IMO

[F5 Dave]

That is because you have a 206deg exhaust port...(among other things)

10 degrees off (and not in that direction smartarse)

[kel]

It was a bit unfair, but the comparison was valid, as it was 1960's vs 1960's.

Not a big fan of the 4 strokes but the Honda 166 is exceptional, damn I love that bike. 6 cylinder 18k open megaphones - hear me HOWL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaRop...eature=related

[husaberg]

Not a big fan of the 4 strokes but the Honda 166 is exceptional, damn I love that bike. 6 cylinder 18k open megaphones - hear me HOWL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaRop...eature=related

You can have it as a ringtone here.....
http://world.honda.com/MotoGP/histor...nes/index.html
The other galleries section show and sound the NR500 the nsr500 http://world.honda.com/MotoGP/histor.../02/index.htmlrc211v rc166,rc142 etc.

Amazing things them 50's. I wonder what we would have now if they were still racing at top level. GP level that is not buckets. Would you get by with just 8 gears. I wonder. I spent lots of time on 50's when I was a teenager. A50 CB MT GT MB RD.

They would get by because they have no options. When the FIM brought in the rules for how many cylinders limiting at first the 50's (later 80cc's)to one. The 125's to two (later one) and the 250's and 350's to two 500's two four the one common rule was gearbox's with no more than 6 gears were allowed.
Remember the speed (155 to 160mph) i posted for the Yamaha 250V4 it took years for that to be matched with the more restrictive rules.
Suzuki when they pulled out in the 60's had been testing the 50cc/3 with god know's how many gears(at least 18) The riders were faster on the twin though.

[chrisc]

Not a big fan of the 4 strokes but the Honda 166 is exceptional, damn I love that bike. 6 cylinder 18k open megaphones - hear me HOWL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaRop...eature=related

Ah god dang I love the RC166. Here's a photo:


And click here for 10 minutes of NSR/NS

[TZ350]

for Rob. Note the builder .The way the twin carbs was done was better than the Factory IMO

Thanks for that.



The GP did not make any more real power when I tested it with a bigger carb the other day so I figure that something else is restricting it and EngMod2T points to the rotary valve window so I am making a set of cases with a bigger disk and window.

[bucketracer]

Prolly be a better visual comparison, with a single next to a single though aye. Possibly even a two stroke with power valves too, since the current four strokes have fewer parts these days, and the two strokes more.

Maybe a fair comparison would be a Moto 3 single with the Honda RS125 they replaced.

Looking at them, I think the 2-stroke still has less parts and made more power per liter, whats your thoughts?