ESE's works engine tuner

[Buckets4Me]

That pretty much ends the arguement (as long as it is true of course and I see no reason to think it is not) and makes all other 'Bucket application' points moot.

dosn't stop you copying them now dose it ?

[Frits Overmars]

dosn't stop you copying them now dose it ?

My point exactly. Back in the day we made what we needed instead of buying it (makes me sound like an old fart, doesn't it?) Think Burt Munro, Jamathi, John Britten

[richban]

dosn't stop you copying them now dose it ?

You would not need to build much at all. Just start with a standard one and make the rollers you need and the springs. Gilear 180 should be close to what you want. I will look today and see if I have any old vespa bits.

[SS90]

You would not need to build much at all. Just start with a standard one and make the rollers you need and the springs. Gilear 180 should be close to what you want. I will look today and see if I have any old vespa bits.

I expect someone will google some links shortly, but something you failed to mention is the variator face angles, belt width, and rear spring tension, I expect that the standard 180 Runner items are unsuitable for competition use.

I am unsure what the guys who raced the old European 180 Runner Cup used, but as far as I know standard transmission parts where generally not used, but I dont actually know.

Making a set of variator pullies would be quite some effort to get right (certainly not impossible).

Making rollers would be no real chore, just a little time consuming.

Like you say, a Gilera 180 Runner is possibly a good place to start, but while it is nice to see some innovation, is it not prudent to suggest that the current geared engine should be winning as is, it just needs to be made reliable, after all , the bikes that win have six speed boxes, and they have half time engines in them!

I was under the (perhaps) mistaken impression that Frits' FOC Cylinder was designed to be used a CVT of some description.

[TZ350]

A and B Grade Super Pole results. Best time 30.74. Clockwise.



The Mt Wellington 2-Hour run on Sunday was won by Dave M and Gary C riding a 2-Stroke prepared and tuned by Speedpro.

On Saturday in one of the North Island rounds Nate D was recording laps under 30's.

[wax]

I am kiwi s90 so the underarm was wasted on me.
There is a lot of things you can do with the std gear. The best torque driver for my bike is made by tgb as matter of fact it takes about ten minutes on the lathe to make it work. The stock clutch can be used ok its not as good but with heavier springs or lightened shoes you can really make it work well. The rollers can be simply drilled to reduce weight or used from another bike that uses the same engine. Its a very common engine. You could use just a air-cooled 125 cylinder replacement if you wanted there is a few around that make alot more power from a std style cylinder. The paiggio engine is so common in the scooter industry and it came out in so many different form that mix and matching to get what you want is very easy.
So what competition parts are you guys allowed to run. you have competition carbs and pipes on your bikes, is this where it ends
Im not saying anyone will do it. but it certainly would be awesome to see.

[SS90]

Yes, TGB have made pretty much all the OEM Piaggio variator componets in the last decade or so, and they seem to work especially well on the road, and last pretty well too.

What sort of work on the drive faces are you referring to? Do you just change the ramp angles? and how do you go about reducing the off/on drive train "lag" that is inherent in these systems.

I know that Malossi have the "Multivar" set up (competition use only), and that works pretty well , but these bikes have to have a transmission not manufactured for competition machinery.

[wax]

Malossi is not all it used to be infact I could show some pics of the rubbish they make these days. The different drive face angles are pretty much just fancy marketing. The angles don't change that mush between variators as much as they would like to
Market. The advance angle on the torque driver is different however. The tgb one is a good thing

[SS90]

Malossi is not all it used to be infact I could show some pics of the rubbish they make these days. The different drive face angles are pretty much just fancy marketing. The angles don't change that mush between variators as much as they would like to
Market. The advance angle on the torque driver is different however. The tgb one is a good thing

Im not convinced that the drive face angle are just a marketing thing, but ill keep an open mind. TGB (Taiwan Golden Bee) have made some high quality stuff over the last few years.

Most people in Europe that I know use Malossi, although, as you say, their quality has suffered, due most likely to their attempts to retain profit margins in a contracting market that is over subscribed. Stage6 also have some good torque drivers that seem to work well, but they retail at over €160, and that's alot of tin for anyone to handle.

Is the TGB torque driver you use designed for "competition use only" (I suspect the answer is yes), because making one would be a flippen headache, but, again, certainly not impossible.

[wax]

If you want to get rid of drive lag you set the transmission up correctly

[SS90]

If you want to get rid of drive lag you set the transmission up correctly

By "set the transmission up correctly", what do you mean exactly?

[wax]

Now your wanting me to give away secrets thats not going to happen..


Im not sure why you think that all the transmission pars are labeled competition only. There is heaps of parts for the transmission that's not competition only.

Even the mighty hit clutch is a road legal non competition part. But if your in competition I and your not running one your kidding yourself

[jasonu]

dosn't stop you copying them now dose it ?

My point exactly. Back in the day we made what we needed instead of buying it (makes me sound like an old fart, doesn't it?) Think Burt Munro, Jamathi, John Britten

Absolutely and good luck to anyone that trys.

[SS90]

Now your wanting me to give away secrets thats not going to happen..


Im not sure why you think that all the transmission pars are labeled competition only. There is heaps of parts for the transmission that's not competition only.

Even the mighty hit clutch is a road legal non competition part. But if your in competition I and your not running one your kidding yourself

I have never heard of a "mighty hit clutch" I assume it's a brand named part?

I appreciate you don't want to divulge how to eliminate transmission lag in a conventional CVT system, but I am still to see one that doesn't have it ( and I have seen my fair share the last few years) and was hoping someone with experience could tell me how it's done.

With-out exception any aftermarket transmission parts (excluding rollers) I have seen come with a tech sheet clearly displaying "competition use only" for starters it is a way of contracting out of warranty and liability. The fact that 95% of the stuff ends up on the road is irrelevant.

[SS90]

Absolutely and good luck to anyone that trys.

Yes, I agree, running through in my mind what would be required for the whole project makes me shudder, but more power to anyone that tries.

Frits clearly knows that it is a winning concept, although I think that it would be a case of a solution looking for a problem, when you factor in how much effort is required.