ESE's works engine tuner

[Buddha#81:Me]

seems one of the faster FXR's down here was running at 13.7 HP geez now he has 18.15 no wonder he left with a smile

[seymour14]

Sounds like a good gain, I'd be smiling too!

Like I always say "A car is a motorcycle with trainer wheels". Go you bucketeers, go!

[husaberg]

You have finally figured that if you want to win races your engine should fire half as many times.

No i have a diesel work ute already. For me to win races would require far more than 30hp plus a multiple pile up and some actual talent.

To win a race first you have to start !
Ive started hundreds of races and only won bugger all , 5 maybe

I can't fault your sentiment
Finger has been pulled out.

[koba]

No i have a diesel work ute already. For me to win races would require far more than 30hp plus a multiple pile up and some actual talent.

I can't fault your sentiment
Finger has been pulled out.

Remember not to pick your nose until after you wash it.

[cotswold]

You have finally figured that if you want to win races your engine should fire half as many times.

Yet to see a diesel lap the entire field at a NI round

[Pumba]

Yet to see a diesel lap the entire field at a NI round

Doesn't need to. You get the same points regardless of how far ahead you are

Although we could change that. Water Ski Racing uses a formula that awards 1000 points to the winner of a race, and then dependant on how far behind the lead rider you are depends on what points you get e.g. 1000 points for the winner, second place is 1 sec back will get 998 odd points, the guy in 3 that has been lapped 6 times may only get 400 odd, and so on. Hope you get the idea.

[TZ350]

Yet to see a diesel lap the entire field at a NI round

I am picking thats a record that will stand for a while, lapping the entire field including the past and current GP champions.

The bike was prepaired by Chambers for Av. Bucketracer and Thomas helped out with the dyno work.

[speedpro]

Me and Ziffle lapped most of the field at the last Wigram GP, maybe even 3rd place.
Me and Jim lapped most of the field at a Taupo GP, and again maybe even 3rd place.
Memory is pretty poor and it seems I may have been faster than I thought, or something.

[husaberg]

Me and Ziffle lapped most of the field at the last Wigram GP, maybe even 3rd place.
Me and Jim lapped most of the field at a Taupo GP, and again maybe even 3rd place.
Memory is pretty poor and it seems I may have been faster than I thought, or something.

Someone tried to compile a list didn't they last year of the results of the last 10 years or so it wouldn't make great reading for the two strokes...................

found some old Taupo track lap times,now track 3,2002 Taupo GP no chicanes winner J steadman KE100 best lap 49.93,m green MB100 50.82,C Morgan CB125T 53.72.50cc race C Sale RG50 best lap 55.49.100cc race was 30 laps,50cc race 20 laps.J steadmans bike was a KE with RG400 cylinder with 20+ HP,have video of steve diprose on Rams old 18hp TF100 beating Jimmy at a Taupo bucket day.so lap times should come down with all these so called big HP buckets.

Al Hoogie (ex 125GP champ) won BOB by a meter from.......
James Hoogie, got second at BOB and lapped third.....Rich somebody?

For those interested in a bit of history, this feat has been achieved before.
Nigel Duff won the GP 3x in a row 2006, 2007 & 2008.
Jimmy Steadman won 3x in a row 1990, 1991 & 1992.
Jimmy also won the GP 5 other times between 1982 & 2002. First & last wins 20 years apart!
Morley Shirriffs also won 3x but not consecutively.
The most consecutive F4 wins was Paul Ramsey with 4x in a row 1986, 1987, 1988 & 1989.
Also Pete Sales won the F5 GP 7x in a row from 1984 to 1990
That's a pretty good target for Andrew!

2012 bob

Hoogie 1st,2nd,3rd. All very close to the end. Lapped everyone else. And Matthew, the youngest, 2nd on the FXR, just to show the CBR's are no better.
CONGRATULATIONS!!

2011 Winter Series
Gavin Veltmeyer 200
Richard Ford 137
Tim Coopey 101

Top 21 totals For NI Series 2010....
Tim Fraser 132
Tyler Firn 103
Rick Ford 100

From the official results and as I remember it.(2009 Taupo)
In the two F4/F5 all in races Nathanial Diprose rode a 50 into 5th (BT 1:32:35) and 7th (BT 1:30:79) respectively, and there were at least 10 Diesels behind him.

The fast guys were:-

Andrew Adlam FXR150 Wellington 1st in the GP (BT 1:27:48) ? and 2nd in the two F4/F5 combined races.

Darryl Cotton Honda RS/MB100 CHCH 2nd in the GP (BT 1:27:39) 1st and 1st in the two F4/F5 combined races.

Neil Batchelor MB100 Rangiera 3rd in th GP (BT 1:27:94) 2nd and 3rd in the two F4/F5 combined races.

Other fast runners were:-

Gavin Veltmeyer FXR150 Auck 4th in the GP (BT 1:28:76) 3rd and 4th in the two F4/F5 combined races.

Richard Ford FXR150 Auck 5th in the GP (BT 1:28:88) 4th and 6th in the two F4/F5 combined races.

Tim Frazer FXR150 Auck 6th in the GP (BT 1:28:89) 6th and 5th in the two F4/F5 combined races.

And the best time recorded by a Team ESE bike was NedKelly on his RS/GP125 at 1:29:52

The worst moment was when Chambers high sided of his bike in practice, knocked himself out and was hit by another bike that could not avoid him. Chambers recovered pretty quickly and now has a big bruse on his bum, there are pictures some where.

The best moment was watching Avalon on Chambers bike start from the back of the GP grid and cut her way to near the front in one lap. On the second lap her race was cut short when she fell at the same spot as Chambers had, she re-mounted and sensibly rode a more reserved race for a finish, 12th I think.

Chambers GP100 sure had the leggs needed but getting the old GP frame to handle well enough to run at the front might be a bridge to far.

.

Results Taupo road race spectacularDate Dec 28, 2010 11:56:00 AM

1 2 Andrew Adlam
8 12:44.423 1:33.874 7 84.368
2 31 Gavin Veltmeyer
8 12:49.726 5.303 1:34.499 7 83.810
3 88 Nathanael Diprose
8 13:16.928 32.505 1:35.974 2 82.52

[koba]

EngMod can be used at any level of experience.
Only problem that occurs is crap in = crap out, and you can get VERY mislead in trying any variations of say a pipe design if you
don't know how to optimise the other variables to suit a change.
For example you can spend days getting a really good power graph of a pipe for a 125, but if you run all the sims with a 19mm stinger, the design is flawed from
the start, and will never work on a real engine, no matter how good the sim result seems.
You can, simply run the sim and read off the graphs that pipe A is "better "than pipe B.
But then you can start to "read "the pressure traces within any part of the system and begin to learn WHY a change was better or worse.
And you can graph TuMax to see what is happening in the cylinder head with the squish and timing curve you have entered.
This is the beginning of real tuning knowledge.
One thing that used to be a good help was to use TSR to get in the ballpark with initial EngMod entries, and now Neels has started to help out
with a generic pipe design calculator, but the only way to really get an understanding is to watch the problems caused by a 37% header,on the screen, in real time.

Trawling old stuff and this sums up my current position well!

Still, It's all learning and all good fun!

[Frits Overmars]

....I was playing around with a basic drawing and had a "oh that's a problem moment"

Consider yourself lucky; I have a 'oh that's a problem life' with some bright moments.

Are you able to shed any light on the "Excalibur project" engine project i posted a few pages back?

I was going to ask you to define 'a few pages' but I found it in the end:

... it was secribed as one of the most ambitious projects since ww2 to produce a racing motorcyle engine that was Cross head design piston with a Sub-head primary compression and sleeve piston arrangement in a totally balanced configuration. the 125cc versions target was 50HP at around 22000rpm.

Yeah, right. I do not see a balanced configuration, I do not see 50 HP and I certainly don't see 22000 rpm with a cross-head. All I see is camshafts and valves ...

Also would you ask Jan if i could post some of his frame pictures on the chassis thread?

I will not ask anybody to post anything on any forum, least of all Jan; it's not like he has any spare time. But feel free to send him a PM.

[husaberg]

Also would you ask Jan if i could post some of his frame pictures on the chassis thread?

..I will not ask anybody to post anything on any forum, least of all Jan; it's not like he has any spare time. But feel free to send him a PM.

Frits i think you way have misunderstood my question, but point taken ..............
I certainly didn't intend to offend you with the question or think you could or should influence Jan to post them.
The request to ask Jan (if it was all right as a courtesy) for me to post some of Jan chassis pictures he had shared out of another thread, May be better received from his friend rather than waste his time dealing with a total stranger such as myself. I appreciate you are of course well over qualified to be a messenger boy.

ok i was reading a old book today and came upon reference to a project in the late 70's or early 80's it was the Excalubur project it was decribed as one of the most ambitious projects since ww2 to produce a racing motorcyle engine that was Cross head design piston with a Sub-head primary compression and sleeve piston arrangement in a totally balanced configuration.
the 125cc versions target was 50HP at around 22000rpm.
i had a bit of a google search and the only half way acceptable references to Excalibur i find are to the rossi like powerboat..
but with the sub head i find these anyone know about the project i guess Frits may..............
i guess it is the mix of the Creasy and the ones below?

The Excalibur project i assume failed. (Like a lot of other English world beaters) but i can find only brief mentions of it in the press in passing.
i put together those pictures as i had not heard of a crosshead and sub primary configuration.
Do you recall the English project? Agreed it seemingly had over optimistic expectations.
I are guessing the layout would have been considerably different that what i added (i hope)

[crazy man]

l'm prity shore Morley Shirriffs laped the hole feild at the foxton gp l was in 3th and dave d ... l could see was in sec . l got lap with around 10 laps to go on mr pogo stick so would say he got dave easy as well

[TZ350]

I have learnt a lot from MOTA and EngMod2T and like Koba, I am a great fan of simulation tools.

EngMod can be used at any level of experience. Only problem that occurs is crap in = crap out, and you can get VERY mislead in trying any variations of say a pipe design if you don't know how to optimise the other variables to suit a change.
For example you can spend days getting a really good power graph of a pipe for a 125, but if you run all the sims with a 19mm stinger, the design is flawed from the start, and will never work on a real engine, no matter how good the sim result seems.

I don't know all that much about the subtitles of pipes, so this is pretty much where I am at.

You can, simply run the sim and read off the graphs that pipe A is "better "than pipe B.

Recently I have been trying to find all the posts that talk about pipes and collate and edit them.

There is heaps of it, and on pages 620 630 640 650 660 670 I have posted un edited collections of raw material. If your interested in expansion chambers they are worth a look.

Pages 610 600 590 580 570 ..... 100 etc all have links lists to other stuff, then there is the Thread-Tools View-Thread-Images option that also helps to find the interesting pictures and posts.



Xmas holiday happiness planing a new engine with EngMod2T



STA's for my new engine at 12K rpm.



STA's for the same engine at 9K rpm.

On the 9k data the 40hp numbers for the exhaust port, blowdown, transfers and Inlet don't mean that the motor will make 40hp they only mean that the holes are big enough for 40hp at 9K and 36 at 12k.

But then you can start to "read "the pressure traces within any part of the system and begin to learn WHY a change was better or worse.
And you can graph TuMax to see what is happening in the cylinder head with the squish and timing curve you have entered.

This is the beginning of real tuning knowledge. One thing that used to be a good help was to use TSR to get in the ballpark with initial EngMod entries, and now Neels has started to help out
with a generic pipe design calculator, but the only way to really get an understanding is to watch the problems caused by a 37% header,on the screen, in real time.

The trick is to move enough wind through the engine as possible using resonance and then one might be able to make 35 crank hp at 9k and 12K. EngMod2T is a great tool for figuring out whats possible and the best way to plan your engine development approach.

The plan is to develop a trombone pipe that peaks at 9k and as it closes up extends the power peak to 12K and 35hp.

What are you doing for fun over the Christmas Holidays ..........

[TZ350]

The design objective of the pipe is a power curve peaking at 9,000 rpm and that carries on flat to 12,000rpm.



Ok ... we have the STA's to do the job and the basic engine details are shown below.