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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #10261
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotswold View Post
    Thats quite a lot of pies
    Or dinners at the RSA .... we don't need to diet now

  2. #10262
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	275928here is another pic of the sidecar for the poll

  3. #10263
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy man View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	275928here is another pic of the sidecar for the poll
    Fuel tank in frame Cool but where is the gear lever?
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Or dinners at the RSA .... we don't need to diet now
    Like you allude to The bike is only half the equation

    Moto3 Class The 125 cc class was replaced in 2012 by the Moto3 class. This class is restricted to single-cylinder 250 cc four-stroke engines with a maximum bore of 81 mm (3.2 inches). The minimum total weight for motorcycle and rider is 148 kg (330 lb).

    For some reason i thought there was already a minimum rider weight far before that?
    All i know is Dirk Raudies was about 49kg and 5.4" others were probably smaller.
    Rich and Budha and Me amonst others are a little more generously proportioned
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  4. #10264
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Attachment 275910

    Following the less is more principle for race winning power and reliability, Chambers is going for the old school approach.
    is that the new wobbly pipe on it ?

  5. #10265
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Attachment 275911

    My super performance CVT bits turned up today
    One end needs to be flipped over to match up in operation if it's anything like my CVT. With the CVT you won't need to sweat over the powerband, the CVT will take care of it.

  6. #10266
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    All i know is Dirk Raudies was about 49kg and 5.4" others were probably smaller. Rich and Budha and Me amonst others are a little more generously proportioned
    The difference between Rick52 and his bike and me and the Beast is nearly 60kg, try lifting 60kg and one pretty quickly realises that I am on a hiding to nothing.

  7. #10267
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonu View Post
    I thought it was obvious.
    Nope, well yes, but it took me a while as the HP God had me distracted.

  8. #10268
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    The difference between Rick52 and his bike and me and the Beast is nearly 60kg, try lifting 60kg and one pretty quickly realises that I am on a hiding to nothing.
    No no no Rob. I have the same weight disadvantage and have come out on top quite a bit. I put it down to momentum. Once that 200kg of man and machine are rolling its like a run away train. Trick is to not use the brakes as much and keep it pinned. Also its harder to get flung off when you are crushing the poor thing under you.

  9. #10269
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    Quote Originally Posted by richban View Post
    No no no Rob. I have the same weight disadvantage and have come out on top quite a bit. I put it down to momentum. Once that 200kg of man and machine are rolling its like a run away train. Trick is to not use the brakes as much and keep it pinned. Also its harder to get flung off when you are crushing the poor thing under you.
    Well said, should be my new mantra, now just need to teach my brain not to be such a scaredy cat
    My neighbours diary says I have boundary issues

  10. #10270
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    Quote Originally Posted by richban View Post
    No no no Rob. I have the same weight disadvantage and have come out on top quite a bit. I put it down to momentum. Once that 200kg of man and machine are rolling its like a run away train. Trick is to not use the brakes as much and keep it pinned. Also its harder to get flung off when you are crushing the poor thing under you.
    Pah 200kg...........fooken liteweight! That must mean me and pumba have the most planted buckets in the country?


    Its harder to lose weight than gain horsepower.

  11. #10271
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    [QUOTE=wobbly;1130461375]

    Having a 5000 rpm wide useable powerband from 8500 to 13500 is in fact alot EASYER to build, than having to design for a much higher bmep, to achieve the same power from 6500 to 11500.
    QUOTE]



    On the usable powerband width.
    In terms of change in roadspeed for the 5000 rpm width powerbands , 8.5 - 13.5rpm V's 6.5 - 11.5 rpm, the 6.5 - 11.5 rpm is actually wider if the bike was geared to give the same speed at max rpm of each powerband.
    From John Bradleys book:
    road speed (mph)= (rpm* radius of wheel (inch))/ (168.1* gear ratio)

    Assume wheel radius = 11.8 inch the 13500 rpm upper powerband limit engine I assumed a overall gear ratio of 20:1. To get the same speed( mph) for the engine with 11500 rpm upper powerband limit we need to change the gearing:

    11500/13500 = 0.852
    0.852*20(8.5 - 13.5 rpm gear ratio) = 17.04:1

    At 13500 rpm speed (mph) = (13500*11.8)/(168.1*20) = 47.4 mph

    At 11500 rpm speed (mph) = (11500*11.8) / (168.1 * 17.04) = 47.4 mph

    At the start of the usable powerbands the speed would be:

    At 8500 rpm speed (mph) = (8500*11.8)/(168.1*20) = 29.8 mph
    At 6500 rpm speed (mph) = (6500*11.8)/(168.1*17.04) = 26.8 mph

    So for 6.5 to 11.5 rpm usable powerband you have a range of (47.4 - 26.8) = 20.6mph for a change in 5000 rpm
    For 8.5 to 13.5 rpm usable powerband you have a range of (47.4 - 29.8) = 17.6 mph for a change in 5000 rpm

    You can also work out by dividing the end rpm by the start rpm to give you the range of the powerband:

    13500/8500 = 1.588
    11500/6500 = 1.769 as you can see the lower rpm powerband has a greater range.

    Note:
    47.4 mph/1.588 = 29.8 mph 47.4 mph/1.769 = 26.8 mph

    But as Wobbly says you probably can't get the power you need from a 2T with the lower of the 2 rpm ranges so you are actually stuck with the 8.5 to 13.5 range.

    However I think this is where the 4Ts have an advantage as there rpm spread may be the same as the 2Ts but as it is powerband is at lower rpms the effective powerband is wider.

    Cheers

    Dave

    Also it's a good way of working out rpm drops for gearing
    Eg, my AM6 has the following gearbox ratios and range between each ratio:

    To work out the range between each ratio divide lower gear by next gear up eg:
    1st to 2nd = 3/2.06 = 1.45 2nd to 3rd = 2.06/1.53 = 1.35 etc...

    AM6
    Ratio Range
    1st 3
    2nd 2.06 1.45
    3rd 1.53 1.35
    4th 1.23 1.24
    5th 1.04 1.18
    6th 0.96 1.09

    So if you change gear at 13000 rpm the drop is the change rpm divided by the range of the internal ratios
    for 1st to 2nd the rpm would drop to 13000/1.45 = 8965 rpm
    2nd to 3rd 13000/1.35 = 9630 rpm
    3rd to 4th 13000/1.24 = 10484 rpm
    4th to 5th 13000/1.18 = 11017 rpm
    5th to 6th 13000/1.09 = 11927 rpm
    I find it a quick way to assess a power range of a engine curve to the gearbox of the engine.

  12. #10272
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgvbaz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Having a 5000 rpm wide useable powerband from 8500 to 13500 is in fact alot EASYER to build, than having to design for a much higher bmep, to achieve the same power from 6500 to 11500.
    But as Wobbly says you probably can't get the power you need from a 2T with the lower of the 2 rpm ranges so you are actually stuck with the 8.5 to 13.5 range. However I think this is where the 4Ts have an advantage as there rpm spread may be the same as the 2ts in terms of rpm but at lower rpms so the effective powerband is wider.
    I hadn't thought about the effective power spread in terms of road speed, thank you for pointing it out. Looks like I will have to aim for 6-7k rpm now, it doesn't get easier does it.

  13. #10273
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgvbaz View Post
    Cheers

    Dave

    Also it's a good way of working out rpm drops for gearing
    Eg, my AM6 has the following gearbox ratios and range between each ratio:

    To work out the range between each ratio divide lower gear by next gear up eg:
    1st to 2nd = 3/2.06 = 1.45 2nd to 3rd = 2.06/1.53 = 1.35 etc...

    AM6
    Ratio Range
    1st 3
    2nd 2.06 1.45
    3rd 1.53 1.35
    4th 1.23 1.24
    5th 1.04 1.18
    6th 0.96 1.09

    So if you change gear at 13000 rpm the drop is the change rpm divided by the range of the internal ratios
    for 1st to 2nd the rpm would drop to 13000/1.45 = 8965 rpm
    2nd to 3rd 13000/1.35 = 9630 rpm
    3rd to 4th 13000/1.24 = 10484 rpm
    4th to 5th 13000/1.18 = 11017 rpm
    5th to 6th 13000/1.09 = 11927 rpm
    I find it a quick way to assess a power range of a engine curve to the gearbox of the engine.
    Bert (i think it was you wasn't it Brent) has an most excellent Excel spread sheet program he will post if we ask him nicely..........
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  14. #10274
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    I hadn't thought about the effective power spread in terms of road speed, thank you for pointing it out. Looks like I will have to aim for 6-7k rpm now, it doesn't get easier does it.
    Sorry, Have just edited above post so it reads a little better. Maybe I should do it before posting


    For our am6 racer at kart tracks here in the UK we have a effective powerband range of 13500/9000 = 1.5

  15. #10275
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Bert (i think it was you wasn't it Brent) has an most excellent Excel spread sheet program he will post if we ask him nicely..........
    Yip.

    (placeholder when I find where I put it)..... go down one post, husaburg found it faster than me....

    Also:
    http://www.gearingcommander.com/
    This is useful if you don't know the ratios for your engine. it is a great resource.

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