ESE's works engine tuner

[Flettner]

Frits, yes I used to tune the SUB4 engines we made ( fourstroke four cylinder ) on our dyno at SUB4. Under about 3000 rpm it was impossible to use the 02 sensor ( two mikuni carbs ) as the cam was such that we got a lot of misfire / extra 02 in the exhaust. We used to tune it to what sounded best / smoothest.

I'm only guessing ( you know, enough knowledge to be dangerous ) as I have no "real" idea of what's happening with injection in twostrokes apart from assumptions I've made to date, and tested.

[wobbly]

Banning the use of AvGas simply due to its lead content is short sighted bullshit.
No different to the banning of leaded fuel in GP racing, when you then saw the fuel guy in the pits having to wear rubber gloves and a respirator so the Elf unleaded rocket fuel
didnt kill him with an instant asthma attack, or slowly leach thru his skin and collect in all the bad places to be in his body..
The lead content is so minute and so benign as far as its so called environmental impact is concerned, when compared to the huge amount of killer additives now being dumped into your car gas tank.

[kel]

Banning the use of AvGas simply due to its lead content is short sighted bullshit.

I listed three reasons on why Avgas should go, there are more.
The rule needs tidying up. Alcohol content in pump fuels will only become more prevalent and oil is an additive.

[TZ350]

For me, its not about banning Av Gas, I am not sure how that got into it, but I would like more choice of what can be used from the local garages pumps as Team ESE get through one 20 liter drum of fuel a meeting.

There are only one or two places here that sell Av Gas and they are a bit of a mission to get to, I expect its the same for most Bucket racers. Team ESE would like to be able to use Av Gas or any commercial fuel that can be brought from the pumps at the local service station, we would like the choice.

As we are attracted to Gull 10 or its competitors E10 equivalent, as a much cheaper and potentially just as good an option to Av Gas. E10 is a commercial fuel available from the local pumps that is easily available everyone. Av Gas is not readily available to everyone but E10 is, level playing field for all I say.

[kel]

we would like to be able to use Av Gas or any commercial fuel that can be bought from the pumps at the local service station.

Then "only commercially available pump fuels may be used for this class" works nicely (although not exactly as intended). As we are self policing maybe this should be put forward to the bucket racer fraternity rather than MNZ.
Sorry to tie up the thread.

[Flettner]

Don't be frightened of ethanol, It's a good fuel but you do still need a little petrol in it for starting and flame speed. Just TELL MNZ "the rules have changed" live with it or piss off.

[F5 Dave]

For me, its not about banning Av Gas, I am not sure how that got into it, but I would like more choice of what can be used from the local garages pumps as Team ESE get through one 20 liter drum of fuel a meeting. .

Fair call. But how many bikes is that feeding?

we used to run off 95 leaded pump gas but switched to Av when they brought in the first dangerous batch of ULP. Personally I found the old leaded gas station gas better for my 50 than the Av, but it was consistent & would hardly run on that first ULP. Keep options open & use what you need. Heck why not add the 5% Tol for blending Castor? Its not like a performance super fuel.

[TZ350]

Fair call. But how many bikes is that feeding? Keep options open & use what you need.

Usually feeding three bikes, and yes "keeping options open", that is what appeals.

[Billy]

Yes there is. Avgas is expensive, hard to get (compared to pump fuel) and it contains lead. Lead is a particular nasty we can all do without exposure to.

Regarding "additive" well a common defintion would be "A substance added in small amounts to something else to improve, strengthen, or otherwise alter it".
Like I said stupid rule, it could be tidied up quite nicely with my proposal but it seems it never made it through to MNZ.

As simple as your proposal would seem,In reality it is not,As many fuels are available from a pump that we do not want used in the sport,Oddly enough AVGAS is one of them,So is E85,On the basis that I do not have a huge amount of knowledge in the feild,I left it up to another member(A much earlier previous roadrace commissioner) to deal with,The original proposed rule has been altered and the revised version is on the website,Also as the date for submissions has passed and NONE were received on theis particular change,Then it will no doubt go through as it is

[RomeuPT]

Banning the use of AvGas simply due to its lead content is short sighted bullshit.
No different to the banning of leaded fuel in GP racing, when you then saw the fuel guy in the pits having to wear rubber gloves and a respirator so the Elf unleaded rocket fuel
didnt kill him with an instant asthma attack, or slowly leach thru his skin and collect in all the bad places to be in his body..
The lead content is so minute and so benign as far as its so called environmental impact is concerned, when compared to the huge amount of killer additives now being dumped into your car gas tank.

Really makes me think we are getting backwards sometimes, just because of the convinience (€) of who can impose the rules.

I was looking at exhaust layout's again today, I have a small question:

Why this 50cc pipe has soo long belly (87mm) compared with other even longer exhaust's? It is to give bigger volume? To give a 14º baffle and keep the diffusor ending percentage in the ideal? What can be in play here, lenghtning the belly/shortning the baffle?

Sorry for the offtopic.

Regards

Romeu

[Flettner]

Ok, is there some sort of conspiracy going on? Why not E85? What has MNZ against this fuel? Why do they not understand this fuel? It's been around for a long time now, passenger cars run on it, racing cars world over use it, It's made in NZ from a by product of milk processing. Green ( ish ). No where near as bad for you as Methanol or petrol. Excellent cooling for air cooled engines, high octane rating and you can run it through your EFI system, I do. What more could you want from a fuel? Available in 200L drums. Mixes with castor straight.
Yes you will use it at twice the rate but so what.

[wobbly]

The belly length number is completely irrelevant, getting the correct diffuser end point is critical - no matter what the desired angles or their configuration - as is the rear cone angle.
What connects these two elements is simply there to get the correct phasing of the leftward/rightward travelling wave fronts.

The same logic applies for example to the cylinder duct and header end %.
If there is a long duct, the header then becomes shorter, as long as it ends at the same % of tuned length to get your desired effect, the number matters Jack Shit.

[Billy]

Ok, is there some sort of conspiracy going on? Why not E85? What has MNZ against this fuel? Why do they not understand this fuel? It's been around for a long time now, passenger cars run on it, racing cars world over use it, It's made in NZ from a by product of milk processing. Green ( ish ). No where near as bad for you as Methanol or petrol. Excellent cooling for air cooled engines, high octane rating and you can run it through your EFI system, I do. What more could you want from a fuel? Available in 200L drums. Mixes with castor straight.
Yes you will use it at twice the rate but so what.

Conspiracy????? Hahahaha,Jezz some of you guys really need to get a life,

The member I entrusted to make the call has far more experience in motorsport than most,2 wheeled and 4,He had a valid reason for his decision based on experiences encountered with some who have allowed the use of E85,I am more than comfortable with his decision and the basis for it,If people aren't going to become more involved with the rule making process,Then I guess they just have to put up with whatever we decide,ENJOY.

[Flettner]

Fair enough, but are we able to learn from some of these "experiences encountered with E85"? Would this entrusted person be willing to share?

[TZ350]

Yes I would be interested in what the background story is too.



This is what Billy says will likely become legal fuel for Road Racing which is a good thing as the un leaded petrol allows for 10% ethanol or E10 and its readily available from the local pump and cheaper than Av gas.

But the Bucketeers may still have a problem because, as Kel has pointed out to me, in the supplementary rule in the miniature road race rules it states no alcohol no additives.

So the most progressive performance development class on the NZ Road Race scene with more members than any other, looks to have missed the boat a bit.