ESE's works engine tuner

[Ocean1]

if it had been legal or nearly legal you can bet it would have been tried by Frank Williams already.

Meh. Frank wasn't an engineer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral_2J#2J

[husaberg]

Meh. Frank wasn't an engineer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral_2J#2J

Yes of course i hadn't consider the GE cars always controversial always popping up in one form or another.
I do note that the Chaperals with the aux engines allowable size not sure thought it was smaller but maybe open cc limit

Can-Am started out as a race series for Group 7 sports racers with two races in Canada (Can) and four races in the United States of America (Am). The series was initially sponsored by Johnson Wax. The Series was governed by rules called out under the FIA Group 7 category with unrestricted engine capacity and few other technical restrictions

and the F1 cars were driven of the engines as far as i know though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_(cars)

[TZ350]

So Rob how is that new frame going? Have you decided on the geometry yet. length rake trail?

Slowly, the big issue is that the tripple tree stem is 10mm to short for the head stock and modifying it is taking its time.

The rake/trail angles are problimatic too, I hoped to get them right by jacking up the back but have to have the head stock sorted first.

Probably go back to riding the old Beast for now.

[TZ350]

I can't see how it will fly, the other accessories are either powered by the engines generating circuits or by total loss from a battery. All theses are a parasitic drag in one form or another.

The battery is only a power drag on the wall socket at home not the bikes engine.

I can't think of any racing bike or car that had an auxiliary petrol power source.

That does not automatically make it illegal for Buckets and there is no reason why I could not do it successfully.

Anyway I don't want to argue this any more, the people I most respect have not embraced this (very clever ) idea so I will just wait and see what clarification we can get.

Husa thanks for the link to the bilge blowers, if we have to go to plan B, I guess car heater fans would be worth a look too.

[speedpro]

The small fans that are fitted to motorcycle radiators look like they could shift a bit of air as well though I suspect they'd draw a bit of current.

[husaberg]

The small fans that are fitted to motorcycle radiators look like they could shift a bit of air as well though I suspect they'd draw a bit of current.

The most powerful 12 v motors i can think of are the CDIT 12V fert spreader or the 12Volt chainsaw i brought of TM for $20.......
perfect for stealth bonzai operations...........

[Frits Overmars]

The small fans that are fitted to motorcycle radiators look like they could shift a bit of air

Correct, a bit of air. They only have sufficient capacity to cool the engine while it is generating less than 5 HP, cruising in traffic at 10 kmh. As soon as more power is produced, the riding air flow must take over.

[136kg136ps]

Anyone do the maths on the volume of air needed,the loss of efficiency from switching the relative rates conduction and convection,the amount of energy needed to move that much air,the weight of the apparatus need to move it,abdiatic heating of that air by being compressed and run thru the passages...?It seems Frits comments indicate he already has an answer." Thermally unsound "is the term I believe he used to describe an air-cooled two stroke.

Rate of heat transfer in water K=.58 ,rate in air is K=.024 or 24 times less conductive.
Cuft water weights ~32kg, Cuft of air weighs .04kg or 800 times less.
Multiply the rate of flow your waterpump would require to cool that amount of HP in water and factor in that air carries away far less efficiently and the number seems rather large not to mention a commensurate increase in radiator surface area.

I may be off base but I previously engineered HP air compressor and gas turbine installations on boats with similar cooling issues and were required to submit detailed plans prior to beginning.

[teriks]

I can't think of any racing bike or car that had an auxiliary petrol power source.

Chaparal 2J!

The two 17-inch diameter fans were powered by a single 45hp, 274cc, 2-cylinder JLO Rockwell snowmobile engine

http://antholonet.com/EngineersCars/...aparral2J.html

[husaberg]

Anyone do the maths on the volume of air needed,the loss of efficiency from switching the relative rates conduction and convection,the amount of energy needed to move that much air,the weight of the apparatus need to move it,abdiatic heating of that air by being compressed and run thru the passages...?It seems Frits comments indicate he already has an answer." Thermally unsound "is the term I believe he used to describe an air-cooled two stroke.

Rate of heat transfer in water K=.58 ,rate in air is K=.024 or 24 times less conductive.
Cuft water weights ~32kg, Cuft of air weighs .04kg or 800 times less.
Multiply the rate of flow your waterpump would require to cool that amount of HP in water and factor in that air carries away far less efficiently and the number seems rather large not to mention a commensurate increase in radiator surface area.

I may be off base but I previously engineered HP air compressor and gas turbine installations on boats with similar cooling issues and were required to submit detailed plans prior to beginning.

This is all true but the one advantage of air cooling, is the limitless supply of near ambient air temp air. (Well maybe not the case buried in the bowels of a boat) Surrounded by water.

Chaparal 2J!

http://antholonet.com/EngineersCars/...aparral2J.html

Yes i linked it in response to Ocean, but the Canam series had an open limit open engine size.
I even posted a video of runing, it it sounds rather funky but would have to be the ugliest race car ever.........
I guess the MNZ will rule either pro or con.
If it rules in favour there will potentially be a lot of Forced induction bikes constructed.....Maybe running on E85 then they should be good for 55hp plus

[Frits Overmars]

The one advantage of air cooling is the limitless supply of near ambient air temp air.

As opposed to the limitless supply of ambient air to a radiator?

[husaberg]

As opposed to the limitless supply of ambient air to a radiator?

Granted i hadn't really thought of it that may although when you say it it is obvious
but the primary cooling medium in the (single stage) air cooling is a total loss.
Where as i consider the two stage process where the air has to cool the water (the liquid the cooling medium) is recycled.
Whilst the air temp may be the same temp in both cases. I would consider that the liquid cooling medium is initially a vastly higher temp in A LC engine. Say About 60 degrees C.
I am likely wrong but i considered it a wee potential area to exploit to even up the odds for the "Thermally challenged".....
It was a stab in the dark.But if enogh air could be moved the odds could be maybe evened up a little.
was the one potential advantage (likely wrong on my part) i guess other than simplicity.

Of course H20 is still the clear winner in my eyes.

[Flettner]

Yes, all engines are air cooled. Perhaps not boat engines.

[TZ350]

I nearly had Heart failure when I checked the Miniature RR rules on the MNZ site. There was no mention that F4 125 two strokes are to be air cooled.

I was surprised at how disappointed I felt, I am married to air cooling and have been enjoying the challenges of getting the best out of it. A 125 water cooled would be just so, ho hum after the unpredictable mistress that air cooling is.


But, no the answer is in appendix D where it states that F4 125cc two strokes have to be air cooled.

Well crises averted and I can put all those RGV250 barrels back in the shed..... ... air cooling it is.

[speedpro]

I hate to get into this but it looks like someone has cut and pasted rules defining bucket engines into the "Championship Classes" section thereby removing those definitions from the bucket rule section. Unless you are competing in Championship races to me it looks like watercooled 125cc 2-stroke buckets is allowed. It would sort of defeat the purpose of course - developing a watercooled bike that you can't run in a championship race. Unfortunately I can't find any old rule books.

I wonder who did that.