ESE's works engine tuner

**husaberg** · 25th July 2013, 18:12

I guess i missed the original reasoning or i can't find it but is the dam about minimizing reversion like the stepped headers?
couldn't you incorporate the bulge in the beginning with your latest cylinder with a simple raising of the cylinder?
Or was it just to test it's effectiveness.

**TZ350** · 25th July 2013, 19:26

Originally Posted by husaberg

couldn't you incorporate the bulge in the beginning with your latest cylinder with a simple raising of the cylinder?

On the GP the bottom edges of the ports are 1.75mm below the piston top edge, so I can't raise the cylinder enough to form an exhaust port dam without badly screwing up the transfer timing.

Originally Posted by husaberg

I guess i missed the original reasoning or i can't find it but is the dam about minimizing reversion like the stepped headers?

Initially the floor plate was because I had mucked about with the cylinder so much the piston skirt at TDC was not sealing at the bottom of the exhaust port and the dam was only going to be level with the piston at BDC.

Then I remembered that Jan and Frits had talked about experiments where raising the exhaust port floor made more power by reducing short circuiting.

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This is the business side and I assume it is what they meant, but I have no idea really or any idea how high it could be.

Originally Posted by husaberg

is the dam about minimizing reversion like the stepped headers

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This side of the dam is the un intended consequence and I think it really needs to come right out to the flange face. I will try that next time.

The idea worked well enough for me to think I will give it another go when I make the next triple port cylinder.

**Frits Overmars** · 25th July 2013, 21:27

Originally Posted by TZ350

Then I remembered that Jan and Frits had talked about experiments where raising the exhaust port floor made more power by reducing short circuiting.

And by reducing the exhaust duct volume and to help guide the washed-through mixture back over the piston edge into the cylinder.

This side of the dam is the un intended consequence and I think it really needs to come right out to the flange face.

Lenghten it up to the flange face and make a smooth transition, like Wobbly advised.

**RomeuPT** · 26th July 2013, 02:04

Originally Posted by TZ350

On the GP the bottom edges of the ports are 1.75mm below the piston top edge, so I can't raise the cylinder

This is the business side and I assume it is what they meant, but I have no idea really or any idea how high it could be.

I think you are very high already, or just at max. As frits said here or elsewere, the area of exhaust port under the transfer opening is useless. Sorry frits if I said it by my words or something....

**richban** · 26th July 2013, 09:54

Hi Guys

I have what look like old Sugaya pipes for my RGV. They don't quite fit the later double brace swing arm on my bike. I need to run the hack saw through them twice to get them on. Both cuts would be on the final cone before the skinny pipe to the muffler. I can tig them up nice after cutting but don't want to wreck them. Any advice welcome. Cheers.

**jasonu** · 26th July 2013, 11:44

Originally Posted by richban

Hi Guys

I have what look like old Sugaya pipes for my RGV. They don't quite fit the later double brace swing arm on my bike. I need to run the hack saw through them twice to get them on. Both cuts would be on the final cone before the skinny pipe to the muffler. I can tig them up nice after cutting but don't want to wreck them. Any advice welcome. Cheers.

I wager you will need to make more than 2 cuts. They always look easier to fit before you start.

**F5 Dave** · 26th July 2013, 12:05

So you are intending to cut & rotate, cut & rotate? Think Jason is right, do small angles & a few cuts.

The P model SW is stiffer & much lighter than the Banana so think of that as a bonus.

**richban** · 26th July 2013, 12:57

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

So you are intending to cut & rotate, cut & rotate? Think Jason is right, do small angles & a few cuts.

The P model SW is stiffer & much lighter than the Banana so think of that as a bonus.

Yep yep thats the plan. I was wondering if it was lighter. Good to know.

**wobbly** · 26th July 2013, 14:02

If you are cutting the rear cone then take the stinger off.
Cut as straight as you can, rotate, mark them and use a 7" diameter disc to get both surfaces dead flat.
Tac in several places around, then you can shove a bar up inside with a rad ground on the end to tap the join dead flat.
Then run around and weld.
Rehammer the joints on the mandrel bar clamped in a vise again after welding to stress relieve and flatten the joints.

**richban** · 26th July 2013, 14:11

Originally Posted by wobbly

If you are cutting the rear cone then take the stinger off.
Cut as straight as you can, rotate, mark them and use a 7" diameter disc to get both surfaces dead flat.
Tac in several places around, then you can shove a bar up inside with a rad ground on the end to tap the join dead flat.
Then run around and weld.
Rehammer the joints on the mandrel bar clamped in a vise again after welding to stress relieve and flatten the joints.

Thanks for that will do. It has been repaired badly at the front as well so I will cut it and fix it up there as well.

The other pipe has a stinger length that is very long in compassion. Is it ok to shorten it a little?

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**2T Institute** · 26th July 2013, 16:00

Originally Posted by richban

Hi Guys

I have what look like old Sugaya pipes for my RGV. They don't quite fit the later double brace swing arm on my bike. I need to run the hack saw through them twice to get them on. Both cuts would be on the final cone before the skinny pipe to the muffler. I can tig them up nice after cutting but don't want to wreck them. Any advice welcome. Cheers.

Sugaya's tend to be very peaky you'll need a ignitech/Zeeltronic to cover the mid range hole, they tend to work with the old 'kit' set up.

**tdc211** · 26th July 2013, 16:02

Originally Posted by Frits Overmars

And by reducing the exhaust duct volume and to help guide the washed-through mixture back over the piston edge into the cylinder.

Lenghten it up to the flange face and make a smooth transition, like Wobbly advised.

I just raised one up 5mm from bdc, welded and replated. After adjusting timing and the power valve I was getting some where. Was also a smooth transition. Had great over rev . Then my dyno box broke when I was making some progress. To say it was a flawed test is a understaement. I did not see any bad side effects and was making good power.

**richban** · 26th July 2013, 16:38

Originally Posted by 2T Institute

Sugaya's tend to be very peaky you'll need a ignitech/Zeeltronic to cover the mid range hole, they tend to work with the old 'kit' set up.

Yes I think after reading a lot in the last few days an ignitech is in order no matter what.

The old 'kit' setup? Do you mean the 1.4mm base gasket and some compression. Seams lots of people talk about that being a good idea. And the 22d10 box?

**TZ350** · 26th July 2013, 16:44

http://www.aircooled-rd.com/default....ge=longrod.htm

Worth a bit of a look.

**husaberg** · 26th July 2013, 17:45

Originally Posted by richban

Yes I think after reading a lot in the last few days an ignitech is in order no matter what.

The old 'kit' setup? Do you mean the 1.4mm base gasket and some compression. Seams lots of people talk about that being a good idea. And the 22d10 box?

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/81/48301117th7.jpg

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/135/47867690ji4.jpg

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/81/21667591zu0.jpg

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/86/99514991ws5.jpg