ESE's works engine tuner

[G Jones]

I cant help but think that if all the effort was spent discussing and then doing the simple stuff better

Or as I tried to tell one customer - "there ain't no shortcuts"....
Thanks for your PM - I've not forgotten to answer - just working through a few ideas before I reply...

Another subject - any of you guys found a way to machine a combustion chamber "nicely" ?
I have knocked up a couple of tools to machine squish & chamber - if anyone's interested - I've taken a couple of photos - I know it looks crap - but it was reasonably cheap to make - and it does the job reasonably accurately - I've posted them on my website if you want to take a look...

http://www.maplesigns.co.uk/photogal...lbum=29&page=1

Any suggestions for improvements gratefully received - or if you've found a better way...(at minimal cost)
Cheers - Gordon.

[Moooools]

The LINK will data log as well.
Frits, what is the out come of this FOS? cylinder?
Considering this type of cylinder is keeping me awake at night, I need some sleep.

Yeah the LINKs datalogging really does suck. It barely has any capacity so you run out of storage while trying to start the thing. You can set a parameter to only record during some event (Wheel Speed > X or whatever) but it still doesnt last long and you inevitably end up missing some data that you want.

But if you have a CAN bus capable data logger or have an rs232 input then you can log most of your vitals on that. Although LINK is a pain in that it will out put some stuff on CAN and not rs232 and some stuff on rs232 and not CAN.

There is a reason people the Missing LINK. However from a price perspective it is plenty decent for most things that bucket racers would be doing.

[Moooools]

A snip at eight grand, good one Max.

Clearly so much overkill and completely pointless for buckets but the Motec i2 software for post analysis is truly fantastic. It is just so well sorted and very capable. It used to be that you could import data from other data loggers onto i2 but in more recent versions that has stopped.

Unfortunately even if you don't need 50 odd channels and want to go to the cheaper end of MOTEC it still costs you your first born child.

http://www.msel.co.nz/epages/motorsp...ducts/MOT18022

[TZ350]

Page 820 ...

Attachment 286699

Yea you need the output to ground option, this earth's the Ignitech input to retard mode.

Attachment 286698

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-...-/181138934401

Rich these are the det sensor posts that I could find.

Attachment 258175 Attachment 258176

So that is Aprilia RS250 and RGV250 that have cable operated TPS's, now that is very handy ......



Thanks for the layout, TZ suggested I should stand them all on end and number them according to their length but having a proper layout plan is much better.

Forget the homemade bullshit, get one of these with the extra wire to ground.
When it sees deto it can ground an Ignitech input and retard the timing automatically.
You get flashing lights and engine protection all in one shot, and cheap as chips - made in Czech so it likes being connected to an Ignitech - same lingo..
Works perfectly - when you get it trimmed correctly it will tell you where to manually pull out timing, then it just operates as a failsafe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-...ht_1582wt_1297

Attachment 263028

Ok mine turned up today.

Attachment 263027

And a couple of two wire sensors I picked up cheap from the local garage.

Attachment 263081

BOSCH p/n 0 261 231 046

Attachment 263082

Other sensors can be found here too. http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4563.htm

Good luck with the Deto sensing TZ. I like the little warning instrument!

Here's how I mounted my sensor. I drilled-tapped an old head bolt and screwed a stud.

Attachment 263051Attachment 263052

My sensor has a PN 0-261-231-001, what's yours?
According to this http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockCalculator.aspx , deto freq for 56mm bore should be 10.2kHz.
According to Bosch datasheets for PN -047 & -120, sensors are able to catch frequencies from 1 to 20 kHz.
I assume all Bosch sensors can sense knock within this range (?)

edit: As for the pick-up voltage, I think it won't be more than +-10V. I had a voltage test yesterday with a data acquisition device in real time! I spinned the crank by hand and recorder the voltage waveform from the pick-up in the PC. As RPM increase, amplitude (and freq of course) of the pulses increase - by hand-spinning it didn't exceed 3~3.5 VAC. Sure it was a lot of fun to watch!

The shock waves from deto will be transmitted right thru the cylinder and the case.
I have seen many times where for no apparent reason the head or barrel studs loosen off - not because they weren't torqued correctly, but due to the
gasket being crushed momentarily from deto.
Many cars have the det sensors on the side of the block,some with multiple sensors for cylinder pairs.
All that happens when the sensor is further away from the chamber is that the shock intensity is reduced, so the sensitivity of the amp must be wound up - not an issue.

Relocated the knock sensor. I found some steel head bolts and faced one off, then drilled and tapped it. And made a standoff that was carefully faced off as the knock sensor likes to be securely mounted on a very flat surface. The black goop (silicon glue) on the blue wire is there as a strain relief and hopefully it will stop the vibration breaking the wire where it is attached to the copper head fin.

The Trumeter 7111 is no longer stocked by RS but they do have something similar.

Attachment 269009

703TR002N-512D RS part number 183-5952 $63.50 ... 5-12V and less than 10mA so easily self powered and at 500Hz fast enough to count all deto events as seen by the Knock Gauge or similar, as 200Hz in a 2-Stroke equals 12,000 rpm.

Attachment 269008

And here is something if you want to try your hand at making a complete det counter for your self.

Attachment 269011

RS part number 185-6090 $45.30

You could box this along with an amp or frequency filter from Jaycar and make you own little compact det counter.

Attachment 269012

Electrical specs.

Attachment 269014

Two different ways to go, with an amp you would count the high amplitude deto peaks or you could use a band or high pass frequency filter and count whatever passes through it.

More on the TPS thing.

This is an email I sent to Ignitec.

Hi
We have several bikes with Ignitec Sparker DC-CDI-P2 tunable two channel ignitions.
We want to use the TPS function.
We found that a 5K Ohm TPS unit worked OK but a 25K one gave us trouble.
Is a 25K resistance wrong?
What resistance TPS do you recommend?
Thanks

This is their reply.

Hello,
Standard automotive TPS has resistance about 5 kOhm.
25 kOhm is strange. Is it regular automotive TPS ?
Attachment 276981
We recommended to use automotive TPS.
Jiri Krejzl
IGNITECH

It Looks like a (nominal) 5k Ohm TPS is the unit of choice for the Ignitec.

[TZ350]

Re egt and data logging.
The ONLY egt probes to use are the ones from Ex Gas Technologies, their Stingers are guaranteed for 2 years and I havnt managed to kill one in 5 years.

The twin screen 52 series Digatron kits they sell on EBAY are about 1/2 the price of the GPX and are easily the best bang for the buck.
The Sensorconnection guys sell LCD kits that do temps etc but dont have anything like the power for the money.

Air cooled race engines are thermally limited to the extent we HAVE to use fuel to cool, rather than make serious power.
On the dyno and on the track the KT will fade badly as soon as the pipe forces it to make any more than around 16Hp on direct drive.

Adding more fuel cools it down enough to get it to finish a race, but then its slow.
Dropping the peak power in favour of a wider average ,lower, powerband will allow the cooling system to cope better and the power stays consistent for longer.

Rob, Running egt and cht you can watch both rise in unison as the rpm and power rise.
As soon as deto starts the cht will shoot up, the egt will flat line or drop as radicals are formed in combustion.
The best data logging gauge ( and the ONLY reliable egt probes ) are here.

http://www.exhaustgas.com/ProductDet...sketID=&RepID=

Thanks Wob ...

Air cooled race engines are thermally limited to the extent we HAVE to use fuel to cool, rather than make serious power.

My copper finning is all about lifting the thermal limit.



And clarification from the MNZ RR Commissioner re using a petrol powered leaf blower for forced air cooling, yes I asked.



Next move in the cooling stakes is to use ducting to force the cooling medium to scavenge more completely between the fins.



The exhaust port dam is so easy to impliment it certainly would be worth while looking at it again some more in the near future.

[quallman1234]

Clearly so much overkill and completely pointless for buckets but the Motec i2 software for post analysis is truly fantastic. It is just so well sorted and very capable. It used to be that you could import data from other data loggers onto i2 but in more recent versions that has stopped.

Unfortunately even if you don't need 50 odd channels and want to go to the cheaper end of MOTEC it still costs you your first born child.

http://www.msel.co.nz/epages/motorsp...ducts/MOT18022

If you wish to stay on the cheap size of shit and wanna datalog.
Just buy a Ardunio board with SD card onboard and just use that, might need to watch how much current/voltage (easily fixed) you put into it but its a 30$ solution. I've used it as a Suspension Datalogger, with a linear pot.
You could output to a homemade dash for it also. Might be on the slow side however.

[tdc211]

I tried those sensorconnection 2stroke egts thermos last year and they are very slow on response time.
I called and complained. They sent me some faster probes for free, which work better.

[TZ350]

Attachment 285964Attachment 285965Attachment 285966

My mission at the moment is a boost bottle, it took me two - three weeks just looking at the problem to even see how I could fit one in, and have the bottle and piping all pointing down hill and get the gear box and clutch cover to seal around the pipe.

Another step forward with the boost bottle.



The alloy block is for sealing the clutch cover to the crank case.



Cut the clutch cover away around the BB pipe and sealing block.



Bit of Devcon putty mixed in the correct ratio by weight.



With a bit of luck and plenty of sealant, we should be able to keep the gear box oil inside the case.

[senso]

If you wish to stay on the cheap size of shit and wanna datalog.
Just buy a Ardunio board with SD card onboard and just use that, might need to watch how much current/voltage (easily fixed) you put into it but its a 30$ solution. I've used it as a Suspension Datalogger, with a linear pot.
You could output to a homemade dash for it also. Might be on the slow side however.

Not Arduino(crappy libs), but I'm developing a custom dash board, and data-logger, and if it ends costing 100€, I'm doing it wrong, and at least I can pack it with Gb's of space from either a "slow" sd-card, or 8-16MB of fast flash, with gps speedo, 4 thermo-couples, a couple analog spare inputs, tacho, deto, PTC/NTC temp sensors, hall effect speedo, almost everything those multi thousand dollar, for much, much less(yes I'm working for free, but spare time I can afford).

[Frits Overmars]

And clarification from the MNZ RR Commissioner re using a petrol powered leaf blower for forced air cooling, yes I asked.

What kind of clarification, Yea or Nea? I would argue that any petrol powered device, meant to keep you going, should add to the bike's cubic capacity, number of cylinders and total carburetter area.

The exhaust port dam is so easy to impliment it certainly would be worth while looking at it again some more in the near future.

Amen to that.

[husaberg]

A bit of luck and plenty of sealant, we should be able to keep the gear box oil inside the case.

Order some of EMOT's Special ex USSR designed insulating paint and give it a lick Rob.

Although It's been brought up before a few times, i don't think any of the buckets have tested it out yet.....


That plus slapping on a massive ducted heat sink to the bottom of the crankcase if you have room.


Lastly slap one of these on the EX pipe. As they seemed to know what they were doing.

[Yow Ling]

And clarification from the MNZ RR Commissioner re using a petrol powered leaf blower for forced air cooling, yes I asked.

Would you mind posting your question to Billy and his reply ?

[jasonu]

What kind of clarification, Yea or Nea? I would argue that any petrol powered device, meant to keep you going, should add to the bike's cubic capacity, number of cylinders and total carburetter area.

Yes to that

Would you mind posting your question to Billy and his reply ?

Yes to that too.

[TZ350]

Order some of EMOT's Special ex USSR designed insulating paint and give it a lick Rob.
Although It's been brought up before a few times, i don't think any of the buckets have tested it out yet.....
That plus slapping on a massive ducted heat sink to the bottom of the crankcase if you have room. Lastly slap one of these on the EX pipe. As they seemed to know what they were doing.

Hi Husa, I like your paint and heat sink idea and have just won this on Trademe. 80x70x80mm and 12V 0.25A fan.



And yes I agree, if the heat sink is on the underside then a heat shield on the exhaust pipe will be necessary.

[husaberg]

Hi Husa, I like your paint and heat sink idea and have just won this on Trademe. 80x70x80mm and 12V 0.25A fan.



And yes I agree, if the heat sink is on the underside then a heat shield on the exhaust pipe will be necessary.

def not my idea's just regurgitated them.
I was thinking more ducted fresh air for the heatsink like the JPS Norton (ie Peter williams cut up oil can) duct to cool the troublesome fuel pump overheating (suffered because of the heat soak from the aircooled engine apparently) The mechanical Fuel pump worked of the swingarm pivot (very clever) They also tried it running of the engine vibration and it worked well other than when the vibes smoothed out a peak revs due to the balance factor and it stopped pumping enough fuel.