ESE's works engine tuner

[Grumph]

I see nothing implicit or implied in the NZ bucket rules which would prevent running a gearbox oil cooler...I don't know how effective it would be on kart tracks but i'd bet on a measurable improvement on the big tracks.

[TZ350]

Take a look at his bike; there are cooling fins everywhere. Even the large fins on the clutch and ignition covers become too hot to touch. Something in line with your ideas, TZ350?

I came across something posted about how a 50 lapped many seconds quicker with a dry clutch than its original wet clutch,later i wondered if it was more to do with the cooling effect of the clutch not directly heating the oil and thus the crankcases rather than just the reduced drag. I saved these because they were pretty.but notice the cases.....

I see nothing implicit or implied in the NZ bucket rules which would prevent running a gearbox oil cooler...

Improved air cooling, I have been very encouraged by these suggestions.

As well as an air cooled clutch, I have been thinking of a dry sump for the gear box too.



Unfortunately the only suitable tank I have for a dry sump has a lot of fins on it ...

[Drew]

Hmmm, still got space for the original two stroke oil pump on the top of the motor? You'd only need to put in a scavenger pump to fill the tank back up.

But with such a low volume of oil in the gear box, would cooling the oil have enough effect to warrant the extra weight and draw?

Gotta be worth a shot I suppose.

TZ, when you've got bikes on the Dyno, how much air is the cooling fan shifting past the bike and is it sourced from outside the workshop? Must be difficult to simulate real riding conditions. I've never spent time on a dyno, but the ones I've seen in action don't look particularly realistic in air flow respect.

[husaberg]

Hmmm, still got space for the original two stroke oil pump on the top of the motor? You'd only need to put in a scavenger pump to fill the tank back up.

But with such a low volume of oil in the gear box, would cooling the oil have enough effect to warrant the extra weight and draw?

Gotta be worth a shot I suppose.

the idea is to use lots of oil to "cool the crankcases" rather than have the gearbox and clutch heat the crankcase
i guess the drag would be covered by lower drag of not churning the gears through oil anymore.
it fails on kiss.

Wob mentioned how cast case make more power than shinny CNC ones due to their interior surfaces I wonder if some of it is their greater external surface area as well as the greater internal surface area plays a part.

ps remember the insulation paint rob

[wobbly]

Stainless and Ti pipes are utter mongrels to make, the stainless is impossible to hand work to shape and the Ti needs purging
inside, and or building inside a gas filled box, so the welds dont become shitty and crack all the time.
They both have a different heat reaction ( the same as each other for all intents ) than a mild steel pipe, and I have always used 8% longer
as a guide to getting the same rev performance.
Re a dry clutch Vs wet , part of the advantage is less viscous drag of the plates dipped in the gearbox oil, but part is also the decreased inertia
of the dry clutch assembly out of the oil.
With the BSL500 we tested an AP dry clutch that had Magnesium hubs and carbon/carbon plates Vs the stock VFR Yamaha dry race clutch.
Apart from the issue of being impossible to get consistent good start launches, the carbon clutches low inertia gave near on a bike length advantage per gear change
off the data logger at Sepang testing.
You could see it happen instantly the two bikes throttles were opened off the LH hairpin onto pit straight, when side by side going in.
The light clutch bike would simply pull ahead instantly.
Shame we couldnt use it, as it cost Bill 12,000 GBP at my insistence it would be the best thing since sliced bread.

[TZ350]

Must be difficult to simulate real riding conditions. I've never spent time on a dyno, but the ones I've seen in action don't look particularly realistic in air flow respect.

Agreed, the airflow from the fans is not very realistic, best I can say about them is that hopefully they are consistently wrong and don't upset the repeatability of the dyno measurements.

[TZ350]

One of the most useful things I have added to the fuel injection system is a switch that turns the fuel pump off.



Being able to turn only the pump off, has been very useful for clearing a flooded engine when trying to re start.



A look down the rabbit hole

[RAW]

Wobbly, are you saying 8% longer for a mild steel pipe if is were to be a copy of a titanium pipe ?

[wobbly]

NO - look at the graph of Ti and Stainless = virtually the same, the steel pipe peak is around 1000 revs in 13,000 lower.
So the steel pipe would need to be shorter by 8%.

[husaberg]

The other week i couldn't find the other Aprilia airbox photos and Air intake. Attached below the pics below are a pretty Metrakit

Something else to consider is how much a sealed airbox by taking air from in front (which at bucket speeds will be 9.9/10 of zero pressure) will lead to a power boost regardless, by the virtue of the air not being preheated by the engine or rad.(cameron)

food for though Minerilli 50.fin sizes..

cooling cooling cooling...........

[RAW]

Thanks Wob, I will try it out on a 102 Aprilia and see what happens

[wobbly]

Amazes me that such clever people build such cool pieces of gear, then post hi res pics on the net with some of the worst birdshit frame welding on the planet.
That second pic of the Hemela just ruins the whole thing.

[RomeuPT]

Stainless and Ti pipes are utter mongrels to make, the stainless is impossible to hand work to shape and the Ti needs purging
inside, and or building inside a gas filled box, so the welds dont become shitty and crack all the time.
They both have a different heat reaction ( the same as each other for all intents ) than a mild steel pipe, and I have always used 8% longer
as a guide to getting the same rev performance.
Re a dry clutch Vs wet , part of the advantage is less viscous drag of the plates dipped in the gearbox oil, but part is also the decreased inertia
of the dry clutch assembly out of the oil.
With the BSL500 we tested an AP dry clutch that had Magnesium hubs and carbon/carbon plates Vs the stock VFR Yamaha dry race clutch.
Apart from the issue of being impossible to get consistent good start launches, the carbon clutches low inertia gave near on a bike length advantage per gear change
off the data logger at Sepang testing.
You could see it happen instantly the two bikes throttles were opened off the LH hairpin onto pit straight, when side by side going in.
The light clutch bike would simply pull ahead instantly.
Shame we couldnt use it, as it cost Bill 12,000 GBP at my insistence it would be the best thing since sliced bread.

Thanks wob!

[Drew]

Amazes me that such clever people build such cool pieces of gear, then post hi res pics on the net with some of the worst birdshit frame welding on the planet.
That second pic of the Hemela just ruins the whole thing.

You should see some of the shit on our sidecar, from two owners ago we think...Since the last guy's tig skill leave a beautiful weld.

We rock a mig, but anything that looks like that second shot you don't like, gets ground back and redone.

[Grumph]

Amazes me that such clever people build such cool pieces of gear, then post hi res pics on the net with some of the worst birdshit frame welding on the planet.
That second pic of the Hemela just ruins the whole thing.

That's bronze welding and i can only guess at wrong gas pressures/poor or no flux/maybe even using galv tubing.....

Pity as he's demonstrably capable of good engineering.