ESE's works engine tuner

**F5 Dave** · 29th January 2009, 14:09

Not quite, the engine head temp wasn't the issue but the charge density, better that the charge isn't heated any more than ness & thus less dense.

Water injection has been used to change pipe temps when out of tuned freq but all this palava just seems to take attn away from the basics, leave it to those with the R&D resource to keep on top of it all.

I've never bothered with filters. Although I am getting keen on shields to make a makeshift airbox to avoid catastrophic grit ingress. Your engine may wear out faster, but not enough to lose sleep over (although I try not to run mine in dusty carparks like the Slipway). Beware a cheapo or dirty filter will lose a heap of power. A really decent one likely nothing. K&Ns can be really good, but copy ones can be dreadful.

**TZ350** · 29th January 2009, 15:49

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

Yeah so a hardened copper vs brass might have been the go. Had some idea (probably false) that it did help with prone bikes but I haven't really had any experience with them as haven't had the need. Where do the Japs come up with their Brand names?, sheesh!

Brass has a much lower thermal conductivity than aluminium and in TZ’s it was used for its wear resistance to detonation.

We are currently looking at copper for its thermal properties, so as to suppress detonation of the end gases in the squish area.

I am working on a crankcase heat shield for the GP125 that goes under the barrel. Presently I have a 12mm spacer under the barrel and the idea is to replace it with some copper finning that's immediately under the barrel and then a heat-resisting packer between the bottom of the copper fins and the crankcase.

Hopefully this arrangement will get rid of some heat out of the barrel and also act as a thermal barrier between the barrel and crankcase. Allowing a cooler incoming air/fuel charge for a bit more BMEP.

We are also looking at ways of cooling the incoming air for the carburetor.

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**bucketracer** · 31st January 2009, 15:59

Does any one else think putting a heat sink/shield under the barrel a good idea? Is it likely to be of any use?

**TZ350** · 31st January 2009, 16:23

Just popped the barrel off to have a look before the next meeting and low and behold the piston has four equal symmetrical seizure marks on it.

This could be a sign that the cam grind on the piston (from a water cooled bike) is not right for my air cooled setup.

Thought it got a bit slow in the last race at Taupo.

I had gone up 3 jet sizes from Mt Wellington too and was running a 122.5

As we have developed this bike the main jets have gone from 90 to 95, 97.5, 100.5 110, 112.5 120 and now 122.5

The picture of the cylinder is just for you speedpro, because you asked, I know its fast but yes my bike is a 125 (123cc actually) as it's on standard bore size.

A while back I was lucky enough to get a brand new one off Ebay for just a few dollars.

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**TZ350** · 31st January 2009, 16:30

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Today I finished the crankcase heat shield and lower cylinder finning.

In photo 1 the thick alloy spacer can be seen.

Photo 2 shows the old spacer, the new heat resisting spacer and the copper fin stack.

Photo 3 shows the complete assembly and photo 4 & 5 shows the fin assembly sitting under the barrel. In the last photo you can just see the heat resisting spacer under the copper stack.

With this copper/heat shield stack I hope to add extra cooling to the barrel and keep the heat from transferring to the crankcase for a cooler incoming air/fuel charge,

More BMEP more Ponies!!! more punch out of the corners

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**Buckets4Me** · 31st January 2009, 22:21

The Itom had a cast-iron cylinder that got really hot with hard use. So the use of a shroud to keep it cooler

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random pics
and Mike the bike was just a bucket racer before his time

he didn't lean off the bikes he went and raced cars instead

**TZ350** · 1st February 2009, 08:44

.

Real great photos of Mike the Bike, didn't know he started on buckets.

See the upright riding style of the 70's but don't kid yourself that you could keep up with them.

These guys from the 60's & 70's have my respect.

A brief outline of Mikes achievements. http://www.pin-ashe.com/mike_hailwood_badge.htm

The Honda 6 wasent known as the "Beast" for nothing. There was one moment at the Island where Mike was coming down the hill on full throttle 160MPH. He was standing up on the pegs fighting the Honda as it was violently shaking its head.

It would have been curtains if he backed off before getting it under control. Unknown to him his wife had come out to watch the down hill run and she chucked up with the shock of seeing his life or death struggle.

On another bike in the rain a slide would not drop back and he was having to pull it up on the brakes as the engine kept trying to take off, he went on to finish and some of us brave bucketers won't even go out if its wet.

Eventually he left Yamaha and went car racing didnt do so well and suffered some horrendous crashes.

When Mike wanted to return to motorcycle racing his old team Yamaha would not give him a ride for the Isle of Man because he was old?? and might embarrass them.

He then went on to win at the Island in a very convincing way, riding a Ducati and beating the factory Yamaha TZ750's et all.

Later Mike and his Daughter were killed on their way back from the local Fish and Chip shop by a U turning lorry.

An old Indian fortune teller in South Africa had fortold Mikes Death by Lorry years before.

It could be said that Fish and Chips are bad for your health!

Read about it here, about 2/3's the way down the first page. http://forix.autosport.com/8w/hailwood.html

There is also a great bit in here about how Mike wanting to upset Ago. Mike took the 500/4 out for a few record breaking practice laps and when he came in he quickly swapped riding gear with a friend of his just before Ago walked past. Ago was stunned to see a petite blond astride the bike he had been struggling to keep up with, the mind games of GP racing 60's style.

In the top picture, on the little itom the ducting looks very much like what Thomas and I tried to do for Taupo.

Now imagine that made out of copper, clamped between the head and barrel for extra heat dissipation and you have an idea of what I am trying to make next for my bucket.

Bucket racing is a whole lot saner than 60' & 70's GP racing.

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**F5 Dave** · 2nd February 2009, 07:59

nice piston but air cooled use diff shape. Also have talked about this but gp125 carb needles are pretty thick, makes wonder if mains not making a diff.

**TZ350** · 2nd February 2009, 09:54

I reckon your right about the cam grind on the piston not being for air cooled. Seizure front and back = clearance, four point = wrong shape.

You might have a point about the needle, we might have moved into an area of development where the needle is now the limiting factor at full throttle, will check that, thanks for the reminder.

Will remove the main jet and see if it floods on full throttle.

**koba** · 2nd February 2009, 14:32

I know from the old mans mates that back in the day it was a hot mod to put Bonneville pistons in BSA singles, partly because of lack of availability. Because the BSA was designed for a more cam shaped piston than the bonne they would hand file them to the correct shape.

If they didn't the would sieze good and proper!

**TZ350** · 2nd February 2009, 19:25

Originally Posted by koba

I know from the old mans mates that back in the day it was a hot mod to put Bonneville pistons in BSA singles, partly because of lack of availability. Because the BSA was designed for a more cam shaped piston than the bonne they would hand file them to the correct shape.

If they didn't the would sieze good and proper!

I remember those days, as I recall you could put a Bonneville piston in a 350 BSA single. I am 10 years younger than Hailwood, so Hailwood, Read, Ago, Redman among many others were all boy hood hero's and the Battles of the 60's and 70's around the European Circus and on the Island at that time were very immediate for me.

As an apprentice I spent many hours standing in front of a piston grinder grinding semi finished pistons to size, taper and profile and reboring the cylinders to suit the finished pistons.

The cam profiles were circular metal disks about 250mm in diameter and 12mm thick and the same blank could be used in the camshaft grinder too. You could take a blank, mark out the cam profile you wanted and file it to shape then use it to grind up a piston or hot cam lobe whatever you wanted.

When you look at a 4 stroke cam lobe you see a very big hill (say 8mm lift) on a small base circle but on the cam grinders profile it is the same 8mm lift but on a very big base circle. The base circle is now 242mm ie 250mm blank - 8mm lift = 242mm new base circle with 8mm lift.

The profiles look only slightly out of round but they have that same 8mm bump starting and stopping in the same place as the cam but in an exaggerated fat sort of way like the Michlan Man.

**koba** · 2nd February 2009, 19:37

And this thread remains most interesting!

I think I know what you mean.
Kinda off topic but it makes me think of an article I read about this guy who made a small scale hemi V8 by making a mechanical reduction machining device of some sort and then ran the full size parts as templates.