ESE's works engine tuner

[kel]

Correct - and perfectly legal if the basis of the build is a non competition motor - but use a close ratio box marketed as a competition part for a race variant of that motor,and no, that's not legal....

some of you are apparently unable to read the rule as it is written.....

Race variant? Did Aprilia ever sell or market as such? Aren't all racing Aprilia 50's converted from AM6 or euro non competition motors?
I can read the rule perfectly well, the parts you refer to have to be from "Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors"
My earlier interpretation errs on the side of caution, if we want to take it the letter of the law as written ...

[TZ350]

Thanks for the tips.

or use a gp1 derbi engine
http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/2085857/
http://www.stuntbase.com/slikice/derbi_project/3.jpg
you can then use your normal swing arm

... it's important that the spring can rotate freely against the secondary pully. ... Removing the paint from the spring's bottom coil and polishing the bottom area will much improve the CVT's responsiveness.

http://www.zumaforums.net/index.php/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=16564 these work very well to free up the spring and its the same thing I use on my scooter.

pictures taken from a link Wax posted

A useful looking fan there, that could be used for a bit of forced air cooling like Grumph suggested I should look at.

2005 Derbi GP1 picture taken from a link posted by Wax

Wax could you please give me the length from the center of the crank to the center of the drive sprocket.



I expect there are shorter belts available so the CVT transmission could be shortened if needs be but there is plenty of room in my chassis so the Derbi GP1 or something similar might just slot in as is.

Fitting the Derbi GP1 CVT engine assembly or the Beast engine less gearbox and fitted with a CVT transmission into my frame could do two good things, put the sprocket closer to the swing arm pivot and put more engine weight on the front wheel for better weight distribution.

Even better I could get one of those performance aftermarket 100cc H2o road cylinders and maybe even fit it to a home made center mounted rotary valve crank case.

CVT has possibilities.

[jasonu]

"Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted"

Jasonu, I don't believe your interpretation stacks up with the rule as it written. In my view Its only when the specific wording "for competition use only" is applied to parts for NON COMPETITION ENGINES can these parts then be considered as "not permitted" (a lawyer would comfortably push it further). There are literally hundreds of aftermarket "race" parts for road going Aprilia 50's and the like. Generally the labelling is for marketing hype rather than application, the brand names Simonini Racing and Top Performance spring to mind.
There are numerous hot fifties being built at this time, I dont for one moment imagine they'll be running original cylinders, why would they?

Mate, I think the rule is perfectly simple to understand/interpret UNLESS one is looking for loopholes ie the infamous 'and' between the words motors and transmission. Weather the labelling is for hype or summat else if it includes words like race part or off road only etc then it should not be allowed.
I don't know anything about the 'hot 50's' you mention but if anyone has an issue with them or anyother bike surely a protest should be lodged to get an official decision (unlike what happened with Forzagate...)
When I was involved with the class it all seamed pretty straight forward. Roadbike/commuter/homemade engine/trans parts were ok, MX/enduro/roadrace engine parts were not. You remember those days don't you?

[husaberg]

Yup, no CVTs there, but terribly maintenance intensive centrifugal cluches.. witch reminds me I got work to do.

yeah been there. hate them the (belvieu washer models) with a vengeance.even though they are incredibly tunable.
Although the 09 and later are "supposedly maintenance free" other than changing the oil each meeting. So they say.
The Dominator and the 2013 do have ramps though. All the slipper 50's are fast on the mx tracks and get of the line better than the 65's.

I am not getting involved in the normal rule shit fight this time..........
Other than to say i can read what they say, rather than what people think they say.
To save the inevitable shit fight i have gone out of my to stay inside the average blokes interpretation of the rule rather than the actual wording.

[kel]

When I was involved with the class it all seamed pretty straight forward. Roadbike/commuter/homemade engine/trans parts were ok, MX/enduro/roadrace engine parts were not. You remember those days don't you?

Sure do, and thats exactly what exists today. Two words - DD50, Malossi. But lets leave it there or we'll upset Mr TZ.

edit: better explain that before its interpreted the wrong way; the mans bike has a Malossi set up and its legal. Plenty of people want to argue if its Malossi it shouldn't be allowed - it is!

[jasonu]

Sure do, and thats exactly what exists today. Two words - DD50, Malossi. But lets leave it there or we'll upset Mr TZ.

Fair call.

[wax]

Thanks for the tips.







pictures taken from a link Wax posted

A useful looking fan there, that could be used for a bit of forced air cooling like Grumph suggested I should look at.

2005 Derbi GP1 picture taken from a link posted by Wax

Wax could you please give me the length from the center of the crank to the center of the drive sprocket.



I expect there are shorter belts available so the CVT transmission could be shortened if needs be but there is plenty of room in my chassis so the Derbi GP1 or something similar might just slot in as is.

Fitting the Derbi GP1 CVT engine assembly or the Beast engine less gearbox and fitted with a CVT transmission into my frame could do two good things, put the sprocket closer to the swing arm pivot and put more engine weight on the front wheel for better weight distribution.

Even better I could get one of those performance aftermarket 100cc H2o road cylinders and maybe even fit it to a home made center mounted rotary valve crank case.

CVT has possibilities.

Your welcome

http://www.sprocatti-motori.com/Cart...er_Piaggio.htm ( doesnt say competition only either)

This is a long and a short case piaggio I can find out the lengths for you if you wish.

There are electric start models or kickstart models available as well. There is so much stuff for these engines it will blow your mind

http://www.sprocatti-motori.com/index.htm

[TZ350]

This is a long and a short case piaggio I can find out the lengths for you if you wish.

Yes I would love to know the lengths.

And thanks for the links to the pictures.

If for any reason, a part is sold as a raceing part then it should be excluded with no questions asked.

...if the package says competition part and it's for (Engine) gearbox or transmission - its not legal in this class.

http://www.sprocatti-motori.com/Cart...er_Piaggio.htm



I cant see any mention of "Race" or "Competition" any where so these would be legal.

I particularly like the cylinder, its 50mm the Beast could be getting an upgrade.

[bucketracer]

Back in the day we made what we needed instead of buying it . Think Burt Munro, Jamathi, John Britten

Maybe on a smaller scale but in their own way, TeeZee, Crazyman (frames), Chambers, Speedpro, F5 Dave the list could go on for pages.

Every now and then someone reminds me that ... there is plenty of "guys in sheds" that make some amazingly good stuff with basic resources.

Thats so definitely TeeZee ...

[bucketracer]

2005 Derbi GP1
picture taken from a link posted by Wax

FZR 3LN Chassis

... there is plenty of room in my chassis so the Derbi GP1 or something similar might just slot in as is.

It sure looks possible.

[bucketracer]

Hi Guys I have been searching through this thread (unsucessfully) for any of the GP100 port timings and modifications. If any have been posted could someone point me to the right page?
Thanks

Chambers made a 22rwhp GP100 but there was not much posted about it. It had a big carb and at the time it made more hp than TeeZees 125.



The whole thing was an experiment to see if a big carb 100 would be a better bet than a restricted 125.



The 100 had only one real outing, at Taupo and showed its gratatude by spitting Chambers off leaving him with a nasty bruise.

And in the next race Av rode it, and it spat her off in the same corner too, after that Team ESE made new bikes using FZR 3LN chassis with GP125 engines.

If I come across anything I will PM you.

[wax]

It sure looks possible.

It would be great to see some one do it. Would sound awesome on the track and it would be quick. It would have 100% of the power 100% of the time the throttle is opened

[husaberg]

I expect there are shorter belts available so the CVT transmission could be shortened if needs be but there is plenty of room in my chassis so the Derbi GP1 or something similar might just slot in as is.

Fitting the Derbi GP1 CVT engine assembly or the Beast engine less gearbox and fitted with a CVT transmission into my frame could do two good things, put the sprocket closer to the swing arm pivot and put more engine weight on the front wheel for better weight distribution.

CVT has possibilities.

Open question to crazyman
How much to mount the MC16 frames Rob has in your frame jig and reconfigure to NX4 geometry.......




Not that i don't think the CVT could be excellent.
just wondering..........

[Frits Overmars]

...Wax could you please give me the length from the center of the crank to the center of the drive sprocket. I expect there are shorter belts available so the CVT transmission could be shortened if needs be but there is plenty of room in my chassis so the Derbi GP1 or something similar might just slot in as is.
Fitting the Derbi GP1 CVT engine assembly or the Beast engine less gearbox and fitted with a CVT transmission into my frame could do two good things, put the sprocket closer to the swing arm pivot and put more engine weight on the front wheel for better weight distribution.
CVT has possibilities.

Seems we've wetted your appetite, TeeZee. Tip: take a look at the Derbi Variant MJR: http://www.50soffroad.net/web/foro_o....php?f=70&t=11

And just look how simple the cases are compared to those of a gearbox engine. This is something you can definitely make at home.

[Frits Overmars]

Apparently I can only upload six pictures at a time. Here are the two that got left behind.