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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #4276
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Removing the step from a Honda means you remove the oval nozzle restriction before the header, that increases duct velocity.
    Bigger is certainly not better.
    As an example when I did testing for the new Luyten 125 cylinders, I counterbored the duct and made inserts to change the oval size.
    It started with 41 by 37, I dropped it to 41 by 35 then 41 by 32.The change was worth around 2Hp everywhere, but especially in overev.
    Then I added a hand ground 41 by 32 oval, to 41 round, transition in the spigot - and picked up another 1.5 Hp, putting that cylinder over 50 RWHP for the first time.

    The Rotax Tandem twin was the first 250 class engine, but it was way too long to get good chassis geometry, they then did the V twin for Aprilia, carrying on making the tandem for karting.

    A747 is a synthetic hybrid with caster added, it doesnt work on pipes ( just as well at the price).Probably still the best 2T oil you can use.
    I'll repost the pic the bit I am asking about is on the baffle cone /stinger

    interestingly I was reading about some chronic shortage of beanstock causing problems with the supply of castor based oil somewhere the other day Drought or flooding or disease or something the other day.

    I wounder if a747 goes off I still have about 3.5 litres I am to scared to use It would be 10 years old.
    ps you never gave me a hint about the the incident with the euro gp jockey and the asian misgender idenification mix up was it L Cap
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  2. #4277
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    big end compatability

    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    Sometimes you get lucky & there are road bikes that have good design cages in the sizes you want. Suzuki bearings don't seem to be that flash, at least on their older models. the MB bearing has been upgraded several times & is actually the same part as used on CR80s. However I am no expert on available sizes out there for common bikes.
    r.
    re big ends tkrj list all the sizes for handy cross referncing there a link on here somewhere http://www.tkrj.co.jp/product/m-be-bearing.html
    also useful for rings pistons etc cross referencing not sure about the quality but a useful resouce.
    Wiesco is also another useful resource for bearing sizes. Gudgeon pins crankpin sizes etc.
    Also there was a post a couple of weeks ago regarding flash conrods euro based that have a useful reference for big ends and mains http://www.samarin.net/?productos
    As a side note the sites for the honda rs125 offer replacement big ends now not factory but top spec.http://www.sp125racing.com/Performan...125%202011.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  3. #4278
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    Another good source for big ends is Thompson - I use these in KT100 crank rebuilds as the needles are already graded.
    The rear cone nozzle in the old Honda manual is well out of date.
    A later version was developed by Helmut Fath and was first used on Fast Freddys 250 where one stinger was 150 long the other was 450 long.
    This better design has a short 10mm "nozzle" of the correct size to create the pressure restriction, then a short taper, up to a stinger tube approx 2mm bigger in diameter.
    The bigger stinger and the reverse taper basically remove this resonant tube from the equation, and the stinger length becomes irrelevant.
    Under normal conditions the wave action bouncing up and down the stinger ,off the open end to atmosphere, creates varying bad effects on the reverse cone waves.
    The pic shows a section of one for F3 - 400.
    Rear cone welds onto LH side, stinger pushes into RH side and welded as well.
    Another side effect is that there is no welding ( dags) to affect the flow where the rear cone is attached to the tube.

    Dont know about Loris and his anal action, but I was with Benson and the team at Cowes one year having diner on the corner, where Max had a new "girlfriend" that night.The next night the same "person" was on his lap,as a man.
    Tell his new wife that one, and see if the bulge in the back of his pants is stronger than the one in front.
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    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  4. #4279
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    [QUOTE]I hadn't herd about that incident but not that surprisede I hear max was rather "eklecdic"or divese in his interests

    But the one I was thinking of was a genuine case of gender confusion where the whole crew knew it was a lady boy and the euro star only cottoned on when attempting to seal the deal .He was not so happy about not being let on about the joke
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  5. #4280
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    I thought parts were ok just weren't allowed to use gearbox or competion based engines.
    I would have thought a big end bearing was ok?
    Perhaps refresh yourself with the rules on MNZ site. Parts are parts. If they come from competition engines then they aren't legal. Exception for pistons, ign, carb pipe.
    So if one found a source of bearings that weren't specifically for a comp engine then that should be ok.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  6. #4281
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    Meeowl Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    Perhaps refresh yourself with the rules on MNZ site. Parts are parts. If they come from competition engines then they aren't legal. Exception for pistons, ign, carb pipe.
    So if one found a source of bearings that weren't specifically for a comp engine then that should be ok.
    maybe the for competition engines in you quote should be from if we are using your interpration of the rules.

    Perhaps refresh yourself with the rules on MNZ site. Parts are parts. If they come from competition engines then they aren't legal. Exception for pistons, ign, carb pipe.
    So if one found a source of bearings that weren't specifically from a comp engine then that should be ok.
    I could be accused of playing the devils advocate here but......
    Here is the rules
    24-2-4 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing,
    Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted.
    There shall be no
    restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston, cam, valve
    springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be normally
    aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity, which may be turbo or
    supercharged.
    F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm
    carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a
    single 20mm carburettor.

    Please point me to the bit that excludes race design or derived big ends,
    Note they are not competion derived engines.they are but a very minor not power producing part of one.
    The competition based motors was designed to exlude cr80, Rs125, cr125 motors barrels major parts and the like not to excude bearings.
    I believe my interpration is in the spirt of buckets not against it.
    Ask a lawyer if this is not a loophole that I can drive a bus though.

    Note people have used Xr200 heads for years and honda called them an enduro bike but who cares they were the same as a xr125s head other than the decompressor.

    If I wanted to say something real contraversial point me to the rule that excludes nitros oxide bearing in mind it's not a fuel it is an oxidiser
    Whoops forget I said that!
    Dave sound real grouchy already maybe he should have a look at the smiley on the origional post to!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  7. #4282
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Here is the rules
    24-2-4 [B]Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles.

    Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted.

    Please point me to the bit that excludes race design or derived big ends
    This part of the rule clearly states that "parts" from "Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors" are not permitted.

    If you don't think a bearing can affect how much power an engine can make I can supply you with some lovely bearings for your engine.

    Something you MUST do on performance engines is upgrade the bearings. It may be with bearings which have a different clearance or maybe the cages are made with a different material, or design.

  8. #4283
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    as above

    Quote Originally Posted by speedpro View Post
    This part of the rule clearly states that "parts" from "Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors" are not permitted.

    If you don't think a bearing can affect how much power an engine can make I can supply you with some lovely bearings for your engine.

    Something you MUST do on performance engines is upgrade the bearings. It may be with bearings which have a different clearance or maybe the cages are made with a different material, or design.
    Read it again Mike.
    But first slowly take a deep breath and open your mind.
    The rule does not say motor parts as you quoted it says it exclude competion based motors and then says transmission parts to exclude close ratio gearboxs do you have a big end in your transmission? or is it a stick of some sort?
    I think wobbly said Max did ?

    With your interpration if I use a gearbox shim from a cr80 in my Mb5 based transmission I'am cheating please.......
    I have yet to see anyone gain a procecution with a unwriten law it has to be written to be a law or rule.
    Although the treaty of Waitangi might be different there appears to be many unwritten bits left still to claim on.

    Clearly ignorance is a defence,
    For anyone except the IRD who's to argue I not ignorant.
    Inocent until proven guilty I say, trail by jury to, You are not a sheriff Mike we don't lynch people these days. Even in the South Island.

    Ps I can't ever remember seeing a part number written on my big end bearings........... its on the packet though I think I threw that away bugger....

    for the record where's your big end bearing from Speedpro?
    yes I have seen your avatar.
    I to do know a little about bearing thats why mine are not standard. Neither are my clutch plates don't think they are transmision either or have part numbers on them must check the packet.bugger must have thrown that out too......
    I don't feel the slightest pang of guilt either
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  9. #4284
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    Always sad to see people thinking they can interpret the rules differently to try and gain an advantage. Then when its pointed out to them, they start mentioning the "spirit of buckets" etc etc.

  10. #4285
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    Quote Originally Posted by gav View Post
    Always sad to see people thinking they can interpret the rules differently to try and gain an advantage. Then when its pointed out to them, they start mentioning the "spirit of buckets" etc etc.
    Well said that man

  11. #4286
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    Quote Originally Posted by gav View Post
    Always sad to see people thinking they can interpret the rules differently to try and gain an advantage. Then when its pointed out to them, they start mentioning the "spirit of buckets" etc etc.
    Look at the rules again its motors and transmission parts
    Not motor and transmission parts
    The devil is in the detail.
    Expliotation of rules is part of life.I don't think I cheat happy to show you my bearing if they upset you. I did not write the rules but I am allowed to interperate them.
    Maybe you should seek clarification regarding the rule from the MNZ if you want.
    If they delete the s it changes the rule a lot.

    For the record mine is std h100 but i do have some beatiful silver plated nos cr125m big ends that would fit with a mm of either side'
    Athough there is bound to be some cheating alegations when the supercharged deisel pig twin project is finished no doubt if it makes 40hp there will be calls for it to l be banned too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  12. #4287
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    I think if you read the rule as it was written, but just separate the two main points, you have a perfectly valid interpretation that allows individual components,but NOT Engines ( a whole entity ) or Transmissions Parts ( a main component) from the competition bikes etc

    like this

    "Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors.......... and transmission parts are not permitted".

    If you work this backwards for one type mentioned ,you can say.
    "Transmission Parts from a Go Kart are not allowed"

    and then you can say.
    " Go Kart Motors" are not allowed.

    Nowhere is there a statement included in the wording, that points to" Individual Parts from a Go Kart engine" are not allowed.

    This is NOT a Loophole its a Black Hole thats so bloody obvious I dont understand why there could be any other legal interpretation.
    Sorry guys, using a KT100 piston is just as legal as a KT100 rod/bearing/washers, but using a KT100 Engine is out.

    This is a little like the F3 rules - where you can build an engine that contains ALL the parts from a GP roadracer,except for the cases that must be road bike based.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  13. #4288
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    My rod and little end and big end bearings came out of a catalogue which Pete Sales has. None of the parts in my engines are illegal. For the record I am using a Yamaha KT100 kart piston which is fine as pistons are open.

    You are right in one thing, the rule is a little ambiguous. It could be taken to read "engines" and "transmission parts". The intent was for it to read "engine and transmission" parts. ie - any parts within the engine or transmission. Every racer to date has interpreted the rule this way.

    The other way to read it is that the rule refers to multiple types when referring to the engines and therefore the rule should refer to transmissions?

    There is actually no need to specify that your big end bearing is from a competition engine. More than likely there is a legal model whose bearings have been superseded to the one you state you are using. TS100s are like that, the only bearing you can get now is also specified for RMs and is silverplated.

  14. #4289
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    Except Pistons are mentioned There shall be no
    restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston,

    Look, I agree, the way the rules are written does lead them too open for interpretation.

  15. #4290
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post

    This is NOT a Loophole its a Black Hole thats so bloody obvious I dont understand why there could be any other legal interpretation.
    Sorry guys, using a KT100 piston is just as legal as a KT100 rod/bearing/washers, but using a KT100 Engine is out.
    Thanks for the support wobby but are you wanting to be lynched as well
    There seems to be a posse forming outside my house already and all my white sheets are missing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

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