ESE's works engine tuner

[husaberg]

Dude I am super popular. Got invited to a Tupperware party the other day. Good stuff I tell yah. I am sorry about causing you pain with the oil spill. My wallet is suffering as well.

Reading between the lines rather than the results
Was there an engine incontinence incident.
From what i understand it is common oversea's as far back as the mid 90's for un house trained 4 stokes to be made to Wear "Diapers" (IE belly catch tanks)
Shame yo hear though, again as well Rich.
is the carb and new piston ok?

Oh yeah how many engines does Rich have to disembowel before he is classified as a serial killer, or is in Euthanasia

[F5 Dave]

Do you not venture far out of this thread?? Try looking at his Autopsy thread.

[marsheng]

If you're going to take 2 litre four strokes for comparison, at least take some well developed examples.
To be competitive in British touring car champs and European 2 liter, in excess of 300 bhp is needed....
This is achieved without Honda's tricky dicky cams.
.

They can't get 300 bhp at 8300. Yes they can, but at 10000.

In fact you can get 1000 hp from a 2 litre. You just have to spin the motor fast enough. However the technology hasn't been developed as yet.

When a fixed amount of fuel and air burn, they give out a fixed amount of energy. The BEMP is just a measure of how well the engine utilizes the capacity of the engine. It's much the same as the volumetric efficiency.

The faster you can get air and fuel through the motor, the more HP you produce.

[Yow Ling]

They can't get 300 bhp at 8300. Yes they can, but at 10000.

In fact you can get 1000 hp from a 2 litre. You just have to spin the motor fast enough. However the technology hasn't been developed as yet.

When a fixed amount of fuel and air burn, they give out a fixed amount of energy. The BEMP is just a measure of how well the engine utilizes the capacity of the engine. It's much the same as the volumetric efficiency.

The faster you can get air and fuel through the motor, the more HP you produce.

In 1986 F1 cars were making 1500 hp from 1500cc in qualifying and 900 hp in race tune. The dog had its day back then

[wobbly]

The BMEP figures are for natuarally aspirated engines - wacking a turbo on the side throws all the rules out the window.
And a full noise 2T engine cant compete with the turbo 4T size for size.

[TZ350]

If you're going to take 2 litre four strokes for comparison, at least take some well developed examples. To be competitive in British touring car champs and european 2 liter, in excess of 300 bhp is needed....

They can't get 300 bhp at 8300. but yes they can get 300 at 10000.
In fact you can get 1000 hp from a 2 litre. You just have to spin the motor fast enough. However the technology hasn't been developed as yet.

Lets check, Grumph does not give an rpm figure but we can make some educated guesses.

And a BMEP of 200-220 psi is not set in stone its just where most normally aspirated high performance engines are at for now.

So we can use BMEP to check what's needed to make 300hp from 2L and whether we think its possible.

4-Stroke BMEP = (HP x 13000)/(L x RPM)

BMEP for a 2L making 300 crank hp at 8,3000 rpm
BMEP = (300 x 13000)/(2 x 8,300)
BMEP = 3,900,000/16,600
BMEP = 235 psi for 300hp @ 8,300

235psi BMEP is unlikely for a normally aspirated engine, so its more likely to be being reved higher than 8,300.

BMEP for a 2L making 300 crank hp at 10,000 rpm
BMEP = (300 x 13000)/(2 x 10,000)
BMEP = 3,900,000/20,000
BMEP = 195 psi for 300hp @ 10,000 rpm

We get a more likely BMEP of 195 if the engine can run to 10K so like Grump says, a 300hp 2L normally aspirated engine is possible, but we can see from the BMEP figures that it is only if you can rev it to about 10K.

When a fixed amount of fuel and air burn, they give out a fixed amount of energy. The BEMP is just a measure of how well the engine utilizes the capacity of the engine. It's much the same as the volumetric efficiency. The faster you can get air and fuel through the motor, the more HP you produce.

BMEP for a F1 engine is typically 200-220 psi and a top fuel dragster 1,100-1,500 psi, there is no BMEP limit other than a mechanicaly practical one, and there are typical ranges for the type of motor your looking at.

From Wiki, rule of thumb BMEP pressures for:-

Naturally aspirated spark-ignition engines : Maximum BMEP in the range 8.5 to 10.5 bar (850 to 1050 kPa; 125 to 150 lbf/in2), at the engine speed where maximum torque is obtained. At rated power, bmep values are typically 10 to 15% lower.[2]

Boosted spark ignition engines : Maximum BMEP in the 12.5 to 17 bar range (1.25 to 1.7 MPa; 180 to 250 lbf/in2).[3]

Naturally aspirated four-stroke diesels: Maximum BMEP in the 7 to 9 bar range (700 to 900 kPa; 100 to 130 lbf/in2).[4]

Boosted automotive four-stroke diesels : Maximum BMEP in the 14 to 18 bar (1.4 to 1.8 MPa; 200 to 269 lbf/in2) range.

Two-stroke diesels have comparable values, but very large low speed diesels like the Wärtsilä-Sulzer RTA96-C can run at BMEPs of up to 19 bar (1.9 MPa; 275 lbf/in2).

Ultra boosted engines such as the engine used in the Koenigsegg Agera can run at BMEPs as high as 28 bar

Top Fuel dragster engines: 80–100 bar (8.0-10 MPa 1,152 - 1,440 psi)

And from http://howautowork.com/part_1/ch_2/Engine_Desgin_and_Performance_Data_15.html

[pete376403]

In 1986 F1 cars were making 1500 hp from 1500cc in qualifying and 900 hp in race tune. The dog had its day back then

Wasn't a day, was more like 8-10 minutes (BMW 1500 in qualifying trim). In race trim they could last about an hour.

[2T Institute]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=452663122

didnt even get a $20 bid, now where are those nortons.

Just needed a good description, with witty prose like ................."this bike is so tough that all Chuck Norris could do to it was break the the blinker"..............."this bike has sooooo much awesome that if you rev it up and dump the clutch, you don't go anywhere. Because it makes the earth spin backwards"


Just wondered has TZ put the longest rod possible in?

[TZ350]

Just wondered has TZ put the longest rod possible in?

Currenty using a RGV250 rod at 105mm and have previously used a RZ250 rod at 110mm center to center.

[dinamik2t]

Tz, now that we're talking about your moto, please remind me: how much difference was there from reducing the duct entry to about 1.2xport ?

[TZ350]

Tz, now that we're talking about your moto, please remind me: how much difference was there from reducing the duct entry to about 1.2xport ?

Are we talking about the simulation or on the dyno.

[dinamik2t]

I 'd prefer dyno. Could you make an estimation of the ratio before adding the epoxy?

[TZ350]

I 'd prefer dyno. Could you make an estimation of the ratio before adding the epoxy?

I am currently running the cylinder on the left. If you mean the cylinder on the right I have never realy given it a good pre glue run but it was the barrel used for the first ever recorded F4 engine to touch 30 rwhp. Testing had to stop as it was so out of ballance at 14k that it was frothing the fuel up in the tank and it was overflowing and running down all over the hot bits. I stopped testing before we had a BBQ.

I have just had it rebored and are planning on giving it a proper run on the dyno after Easter.

Kel and I are playing it cautious with the GP in little over a week and Kaitoke at Easter any more experimenting will have to wait for a bit.

There are a few new things I want to try, like the new Wobbly pipe, the tripple port with glued transfers, a boost bottle, an electronic power jet thing with TPS and re visit the plenum.

Then there is the experiment with the two 24mm carbs, one with the venturi in front of the slide and the other behind in back to back tests with a 30mm carb to see what differences are, if any.

And the bigger rotary valve.

I think in there somewhere is lurking 35 rwhp.

[husaberg]

There are a few new things I want to try like the new Wobbly pipe, the tripple port with glued transfers, a boost bottle and re visit the plenum.

as well as too Vtac,(Or what ever it was called) Attac, Electric powerjet shortened intake ,slippery disk, larger disk..........
All pics from out of TZ's excellent library

What actually is the combustion chamber shape and comp ratio TZ?

[TZ350]

What actually is the combustion chamber shape and comp ratio TZ?

Semi Toroid and 7.4:1 corrected. (9cc, ex opens 78.5 deg ATDC)