ESE's works engine tuner

[Frits Overmars]

Im kinda shocked by the building that ignitech work out of. Oh well as long as they keep making good ignitions its all good

That's the spirit. You should see my place.

[fatbastd]

Whose TD3 might that have been Wob?

Got that Frepin beast percolating yet?

Will it be ready in 10 days time?

[koba]

Hey all,

I thought I'd pick some brains on this.

Some background will help:

I've fried a few pistons lately, all my own fault.

The First one went after changing the pipe and not getting the jetting and ignition timing right for the new pipe.
It blew a hole in the top of the piston on part throttle when I started to lug it out of a corner, the engine was loading up more than I had been when I was running through that bend in a lower gear. I'd run with this pipe and ignition combo for a wee while but had been going slower and it had been on cold days.
It's certainly faster to be in the higher gear but not if the engine blows!

So with this in mind I needed to make some corrections.

The second one due to an error on my part, I've been measuring the timing by piston height, I was on one specific setting for ages so it was ingrained in my brain, so much that I forgot to correct for the recent changed in height of the head...
I've also made a (very ugly) dial gauge fixture so I can be properly accurate.

Anyway, I suspect there may be quite a mismatch between the ignition bow that I've been using (KX125) and my porting/pipe so I've shelved it for now and built a cheap Jaycar CDI unit that has no curve.

Yeah, I'm aware this is all backwards and I'm a prime candidate for purchasing a Ingitech but at the moment I need to get the damn thing running and the Ignitech is a bit much at the moment as I think I'd have to update the stator and rotor too.

The pipe is a big step up from the old one, It should be scavenging a lot better than it was.


So, to finally get the the actual question, what is a good (safe) starting point for setting an ignition that has no curve on a bike that is 'unknown' as far as timing requirement goes?



I'm probably going to start at around 14 degrees, standard is 1 mm which works out to be 14.6 degrees BTDC.

[speedpro]

Depending on your combustion chamber and the squish velocity and flame propagation rates, the flat timing curve might not be as bad as you expect. My MB is a little dated with the chamber shape having a small radius from the squish into the bowl. On the dyno we found 15deg BTDC timing was good over the whole rev range, except maybe just for a tiny bit right at the top where we backed it off a smidge to help keep it revving. The requirement for 15 degrees is a fact measured on the dyno, the reason is only theoretical.

[koba]

Depending on your combustion chamber and the squish velocity and flame propagation rates, the flat timing curve might not be as bad as you expect. My MB is a little dated with the chamber shape having a small radius from the squish into the bowl. On the dyno we found 15deg BTDC timing was good over the whole rev range, except maybe just for a tiny bit right at the top where we backed it off a smidge to help keep it revving. The requirement for 15 degrees is a fact measured on the dyno, the reason is only theoretical.

True.

I guess fuel is going to make a difference too.

I'm going to take a punt on 14 and work from there.
I'll be drowning it in fuel to start with.

[F5 Dave]

I've been playing a bit Mike, I'll email you up a curve sometime, might help, might not. Picked me up a little around 10. I'm just off to dyno with pj to try? Should have read up more, there are two numbers. I'm assuming they turn off solenoid and turn it back on after. But doesn't seem to draw any current with engine not running so maybe a silent 1000 rpm turn on, is a newer feature? I remember Wob saying about truth table to avoid starting issues running capacitor set up. Fibd out soon

[wobbly]

TD3 is Brett Eaton and the Frepin will be on the dyno end of this week.
Will post a couple of pics when I get the stingers/mufflers fitted.

[koba]

I had a bit of testing, a good few laps and no piston holes.

I went Waay rich and dialed it back progressively, I got to the same main and needle spot as the last melt down and it still wouldn't rev out.
Closed the plug gap a bit and Boom! goes great.

I'll flirt going a bit richer again and look at why the spark isn't so meaty.
I think my earthing might be substandard.

This bike is such a cock-tease, I got it running smooth just as we had to leave.

I'm so glad I've picked up enough experience to go for that plug gap rather than going leaner and leaner...

[TZ350]

Well that is Sundays racing at Mt Wellington done and dusted.

In F5 I took what may have been the most powerful 50 there and rode it to last place.....

F4 A grade was two strokes followed by Gavin FXR150 and Glen on Giggles Team ESE Dark Side FXR150 Special and 8 other FXR150's, in both points races.

Team ESE's rider Rick took 2nd both times, in the first race after a very cheeky passing move and again after a bit of luck in traffic during the last lap of the second race.

Best lap times of the 2T's (racing clockwise)
R1
Nathanael Diprose 30.024
Rick Ford 29.944
David Diprose 30.318
and 4T's
Gavin Veltmeyer 30.572
Glen Orwin 30.646
R2
Nathanael Diprose 29.901
Rick Ford 30.475
David Diprose 30.381
and 4T's
Gavin Veltmeyer 30.758
Glen Orwin 30.523

1314ABUC.xls

Points to date, supplied by David Diprose

[fatbastd]

TD3 is Brett Eaton and the Frepin will be on the dyno end of this week.
Will post a couple of pics when I get the stingers/mufflers fitted.

Excellent: been wating to see the Frepin rsult for months...

Didn't realise Brett E had a TD3. Real or RD-TD-ised? Wil see in a couple of weeks, perhaps.

[wobbly]

Bretts thing is a modded RD, not sure exactly what cylinders are on it now.
It had the chrome fall off the original set we used when it was first built last year and now the crank is apart as well.

The Frepin TZ400 cylinder is giving me grief as well,I hope to have it back mid week to fit and then dyno.
RT stayed here a couple of weeks ago and pronounced the trick suspension to be the ducks nuts on the clickers and the
rider sag is on the money so I am hoping the time needed for THD to dial that all in will be minimal.

[F5 Dave]

Well I'm still a little confused by the PJ settings on the ignitech. When connected to the PC the PJ solenoid seems to activate at the first number (No TPS fitted yet) closing the PJ. Not sure what the 2nd number is for. Seems backward to what I was expecting. Operates fine with Test function.

[RomeuPT]

Hello to everyone.

Well, the ignitech company really needs new instalations, but the Europe old industrial areas are almost has old as NZ first settlement's

I am bringing a question:

Had been looking to make a pipe for Aprilia RS 125, a friend of mine bring one with an arrow exhaust. The bike have max power at 9500/10000 and does not rev much past 11000 after 3rd gear, ok normal for a 125 stock road bike. But the Arrow Pipe, seems to be around the total lenght of ~880 mm or less and has a huge 129mm belly outside diameter.

Shouldn't a pipe for a 125cc at 19* exhaust timing with 880mm lenght have a peak around 11000? isn't it a too big belly for stock rotax 122? What is the case with this engine?

Thanks

[2T Institute]

Hello to everyone.

Well, the ignitech company really needs new instalations, but the Europe old industrial areas are almost has old as NZ first settlement's

I am bringing a question:

Had been looking to make a pipe for Aprilia RS 125, a friend of mine bring one with an arrow exhaust. The bike have max power at 9500/10000 and does not rev much past 11000 after 3rd gear, ok normal for a 125 stock road bike. But the Arrow Pipe, seems to be around the total lenght of ~880 mm or less and has a huge 129mm belly outside diameter.

Shouldn't a pipe for a 125cc at 19* exhaust timing with 880mm lenght have a peak around 11000? isn't it a too big belly for stock rotax 122? What is the case with this engine?

Thanks

No doubt the 122/123 is a tricky engine to get some dcent HP out of. The standard pipe wors well if you do 2 things 1) cut 30-35mm from the belly 2) roll or machine a insert to take the stinger dia down to 23mm. That gives a peak close to 12,000 they do not like any more than 8deg after peak otherwise it kills the over rev. If you really want to have fun install a 115mm rod.

[F5 Dave]

I read a story on Acrapovic factory & they kept the factory & trucks looking nondescript as they were worried about the $ value of Ti & finished product travelling in & out of the gates.