ESE's works engine tuner

[Haufen]

Can you tell us when you'll be able / allowed to tell and explain the whole story / engine, Frits?

[Frits Overmars]

....the suggested inlet passage... has the capacity to draw air or air/fuel directly in, bypassing the crankcase.

Great minds think alike, Ken. The picture below shows the onset of an experimental Modena engine, created by my friend, Modena technical director Roland Holzner.


If you take this idea further and concentrate on eliminating its drawbacks, as Roland did, you'll get this:



That's right: 24/7
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130867376

[Frits Overmars]

Can you tell us when you'll be able / allowed to tell and explain the whole story / engine, Frits?

When the patent lawyers give the green light, I suppose. No idea when that will be.

[Martin1981]

70 rwhp out of 125ccm..... sounds like my rg 500 will do the job once the ryger technology is applied

Frits, how does the Ryger Engine sound?

[Frits Overmars]

70 rwhp out of 125ccm..... sounds like my rg 500 will do the job once the ryger technology is applied

It would certainly put the RG-trannie to the test. 280 hp, that's 50 horses more than what the current 1000 cc MotoGP bikes have, with all their electronic gizmos, meant to keep their riders on the track and out of hospital.

Frits, how does the Ryger Engine sound?

Like a regular 125 cc kart engine, until you rev it through the ceiling. Lovely sound!

[adegnes]

Could there be som variant of a pressure wave supercharger involved in this Ryger engine maybe?

[husaberg]

Could there be some variant of a pressure wave supercharger involved in this Ryger engine maybe?

http://www.superstreetonline.com/fea...-supercharger/

That would fit with a lot of what Ryger posted and would also fit in with the simple.
http://papers.sae.org/2014-01-2136/
Yet it still leaves the space below the cylinder and the high revs.
I still think there a yoke and maybe a slipper piston hiding there.
As Ken pointed out there is some advantages to directly going into the cylinder and I note the original pic has what appears to be both a crankcase reed entry and a very high cylinder entry.
pics to follow......


On a totally different subject

Great minds think alike, Ken. The picture below shows the onset of an experimental Modena engine, created by my friend, Modena technical director Roland Holzner.


If you take this idea further and concentrate on eliminating its drawbacks, as Roland did, you'll get this:

If one used high inlet port, and if it was to open at a precise time when the exhaust gas was exiting the cylinder a vacuum would occur allowing a increase in direct cylinder filling and a clean exhaust.
Michel Kaden was the originator of this it's know as the Kadency effect.
It was used on Diesel engines including the Foden and the Commer.
Perhaps Frits could explain if this would allow a increase in cylinder filling on a high speed modern 2 stroke.
Was that what the kart engine you showed earlier was trying to use, achieve.

Yes I know that's how an expansion chamber works. lol

[Frits Overmars]

If one used high inlet port, and if it was to open at a precise time when the exhaust gas was exiting the cylinder a vacuum would occur allowing a increase in direct cylinder filling and a clean exhaust. Michel Kaden was the originator of this it's know as the Kadency effect. It was used on Diesel engines including the Foden and the Commer.

The mans name was not Kaden but Kadenacy, not to be confused with Walter Kaaden of MZ fame. The Kadenacy effect depends on a pressure difference over both sides of a tube. This difference will accelerate a mass of gas in the tube until the pressure difference is zero. Because of inertia the mass will keep on moving, causing a low pressure at the former high-pressure side of the tube. This low pressure sucks in ambient gas. That's all folks.
All high-speed modern two-strokes are already using this effect; that is why the header is so important.

[Frits Overmars]

Someone found the actual Patent today.... It was not me either. So no more questions.

Finding it does not relieve me from my non-disclosure commitment.
But to the best of my knowledge you are not secrecy-bound, so why not take the opportunity and make a lot of people here happy?

[Flettner]

This is a fun game, Time/area/pressure, Time is decreasing, area is limited in an RSA type cylinder ( 14,000 rpm), so the only other perameter to change is pressure, that would be charge delivery pressure. Years ago Suzuki had system were a small hole was drilled high in the cylinder sending high pressure to the crank case, so when the charge was ready to enter the cylinder it was under conciderable pressure. power was had over a small rev range ( high up where blowdown time was running out ). Just a thought that this Ryger engine might be using some version of this system?
I still think that this engine ( seen in the Kart frame ) is indeed AN engine as Frits said ( one of the development prototypes ) but not THE engine. I think THE engine will be tucked up in that nice white van seen in the background, tested without a photo shoot, just saying.

[breezy]

this engine has nothing to do with the c i t s .... Basil Van Rooyen ?

[Frits Overmars]

Years ago Suzuki had system were a small hole was drilled high in the cylinder sending high pressure to the crank case, so when the charge was ready to enter the cylinder it was under considerable pressure.

In 1962 Suzuki even gave the B-port (there were only two A-transfer ports and one B-port) the same timing as the exhaust port.

I still think that this engine ( seen in the Kart frame ) is indeed AN engine as Frits said ( one of the development prototypes ) but not THE engine. I think THE engine will be tucked up in that nice white van seen in the background, tested without a photo shoot, just saying.

Neil, the engine in the kart frame is the engine; nothing taken down or conceiled.
I have seen comments about me keeping my hand over the spark plug in one of the pictures. The simple reason was that I hadn't been in a kart for a long time and I tried to program my mind into remembering where the spark plug was, so I wouldn't ram my elbow against it.

[husaberg]

In 1962 Suzuki even gave the B-port (there were only two A-transfer ports and one B-port) the same timing as the exhaust port.

This is a fun game, Time/area/pressure, Time is decreasing, area is limited in an RSA type cylinder ( 14,000 rpm), so the only other perameter to change is pressure, that would be charge delivery pressure. Years ago Suzuki had system were a small hole was drilled high in the cylinder sending high pressure to the crank case, so when the charge was ready to enter the cylinder it was under conciderable pressure. power was had over a small rev range ( high up where blowdown time was running out ). Just a thought that this Ryger engine might be using some version of this system?
.

Pretty sure that was taken/borrowed/delivered/Solen directly from MZ
I think I have a pic somewhere

The mans name was not Kaden but Kadenacy, not to be confused with Walter Kaaden of MZ fame. The Kadenacy effect depends on a pressure difference over both sides of a tube. This difference will accelerate a mass of gas in the tube until the pressure difference is zero. Because of inertia the mass will keep on moving, causing a low pressure at the former high-pressure side of the tube. This low pressure sucks in ambient gas. That's all folks.
All high-speed modern two-strokes are already using this effect; that is why the header is so important.

Oh yes Kadence Whoops........Got his first name right though.......50% a pass right?
I was meaning more directly using the effect as a crankcase bypass. Directly using the air or mixture. I guess in a cylinder reed they may do. I have never really though about it to tell you the truth.

[adegnes]

Looks like something is piped into the reed block.

And here is the STA analysis with the better data, now we see the guys doing this were pretty close to the money.

I think I remember you saying that for any real power you'll have to be up at 198° exhaust - what do you think the outcome would be if I raised the exhaust to say 194-5, and followed with the transfers to 128-9? I guess what I'm really asking is where to go from here... The more I read, the more I feel whatever I modify is just a shot in the dark... Ignorance is bliss!
"stop whining and just buy engmod allready" is an acceptable answer.

[cotswold]

When the patent lawyers give the green light, I suppose. No idea when that will be.

Here is a picture of the Ryger cylinder. Explains it all. LOL