ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

With the Konig, The manufacturing tolerances were pretty sloppy on the old Konigs (we in the States had a strong feeling that we got the junk and the Europeans got the better-made motors), but if you buy a complete new Konny crank, as I hear it you'll be getting good workmanship.

When you read the story of Kim and Konig there is no mention of favoritism. Kim drover boats as well. I think in East Berlin things were pretty tough and what could be achieved engineering wise was pretty limited by circumstances.

The Konig engines went into hydroplane boats. racing motorcycles, side cars, microlights, and probably lots of other things, a very remarkable story.

[husaberg]

When you read the story of Kim and Konig there is no mention of favoritism. Kim drover boats as well. I think in East Berlin things were pretty tough and what could be achieved engineering wise was pretty limited by circumstances.

The Konig engines went into hydroplane boats. racing motorcycles, side cars, microlights, and probably lots of other things, a very remarkable story.

Are you sure Kim wasn't a Aussie rob, most of those drovers were.

[lodgernz]

The Lan Drovers were poms though...

[TZ350]

Are you sure Kim wasn't a Aussie Rob.

Kim Drover Boats as well .....

Kim, born in Nelson, grew up in Auckland, moved to Aus then on to race in Europe.

[Grumph]

For the Maico piston, maybe you could fit a reverse-spotfacer to make the faces parallel, if you want to use washers there.

With the Konig, when you figure out what all you need you can PM me and I'll get you in touch with people who still work on those. Give me dims for the spacers. It might be that Konny is making many parts you can use. They only build 500s and 700s, be these are essentially the same as the 350s, same crank, rods, etc.. What's more, since all these versions had the 54mm stroke, to make a 350 required an extra-thick sleeve. This is a good thing if you happened to want to modernize this engine with improved porting; starting with new, thick, blank sleeves, you can make your own porting and have a real stomper. The manufacturing tolerances were pretty sloppy on the old Konigs (we in the States had a strong feeling that we got the junk and the Europeans got the better-made motors), but if you buy a complete new Konny crank, as I hear it you'll be getting good workmanship.

You were not alone in thinking that you got the junk...i've read reports from the British sidecar guys who bought them who thought the continental Europeans were getting the better quality stuff....they probably thought the good ones were being exported to the US.

[husaberg]

Kim Drover Boats as well .....

Kim, born in Nelson, grew up in Auckland, moved to Aus then on to race in Europe.

That explains that kiwi he had on his bike I guess.

works like this.....

Konig inc crank pics
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/al...p?albumid=4851

Boxer 2 strokes
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/al...p?albumid=4879

Attachment 297052

http://www.quincylooperracing.us/subpage99.html

Konig Factory Tour.

in here is the Konny drawings

So zee Swiss could have learned a bit from zee Germans.
I guess in their defence it was because the Swiss designers were used to working with Cheese and Chocolates
Attachment 313746Attachment 313747Attachment 313748Attachment 313749Attachment 313750Attachment 313751
The Konig crank (above) seems to be a better solution.
Anyone know how long it lasted. Yes I realise the HP was a bit lower then. It would be a bitch to make that way but it was how the Hondas twins were done so it must have been cheaper.

[jasonu]

You were not alone in thinking that you got the junk...i've read reports from the British sidecar guys who bought them who thought the continental Europeans were getting the better quality stuff....they probably thought the good ones were being exported to the US.

Sounds a bit like 'I didn't win because...'

[seattle smitty]

Nope, not sour grapes at all. In the States, the Konig racers who won at the Nationals were usually those who had got their engines entirely re-machined by a tool-and-die-maker who specialized in doing that, Harry "Zak" Pasturzak. He often referred to Konigs as do-it-yourself kits for adults, rather like a lot of Chinese machinery today. Zak told me in a letter that he suspected the Europeans got engines assembled from picked parts and we got what was left, but maybe all of it was of "Chinese quality." When Konig started sub-contracting out the crankshafts to a company called Hurcler or Hercler or some-such, the quality improved so much that Zak advised owners of the older stuff to just buy that company's cranks and not bother sending the old Konig-made cranks for him to re-work.

Somebody wondered about filling the two "balance" holes in a full-circle crank with epoxy (rather than aluminum or whatever). I've seen them (a long time ago) filled most of the way with some sort of foam such as Ethafoam, sealed at each end with about 3mm of Devcon. Sounds worse than marginal, doesn't it, but it had stood up to methanol and numerous heats running near 10,000rpm. And boats run at max rpm or pretty near it for an entire heat (which however is far shorter than a heat of motorcycle or kart racing). This was back when we all thought you were supposed to have real low-volume crankcases. The kart guys were particularly keen on "stuffing" their crankcases in those days (Sixties) of megaphones or early "bounce-pipes" (expansion chambers).

[wobbly]

Hoeckle was the crankshaft manufacturer, they did them for TZ350 racebikes as well that were way better
quality then the Yamaha stuff.
Very expensive at the time, but bulletproof due to the materials and quality control.

[Frits Overmars]

....he suspected the Europeans got engines assembled from picked parts and we got what was left...
When Konig started sub-contracting out the crankshafts to a company called Hurcler or Hercler or some-such, the quality improved so much....

So everybody suspected that they were getting worse stuff than everybody else. In reality everything produced by König had the same poor quality. Their castings were awful; you had to varnish them in order to keep the coolant inside.
That crankshaft company was Hoeckle, at that time the best crankshaft manufacturer in the world. They made the crankshafts for world champion engines such as Morbidelli, Minarelli and Garelli.

EDIT: I see Wobbly beat me to the Hoeckle part. Well, he does have a 10 hours time zone head-start on me...

[TZ350]

From reading the book I get the impression Konig made their own cranks for quite a while, and Hoeckle came on the scene much later in an effort to improve reliability. I expect Kim would have had the pick of the parts because he worked at the Factory building Konig engines, but even his own race bikes crankcases were porous and difficult to seal.

[seattle smitty]

Come on, Frits, I see you have a key for putting the umlaut in Konig ("Kyurnikh," right?). You Europeans get all the good stuff.

Is Hoeckle still in that business?

[41juergen]

So here is something for the wise ones....







These are pistons from my TZR250R 3XV, its the last 2 stroke road bike Yamaha build until end of the 90ies. It is bone stock and the first piston had only 8000km on it and the engine ran fine (WOT for approx. 2 min on the german highway) without any problems. Then one day when reving hard through the gears it made bang. Ok, fitted a other (used) piston in as it was planned to run it only until end of the year when a other engine will go in. But after another 800km again bang after high reving.
The engine is limited due to the Japanese legislation at that time to 45 rear wheel HP. The Squish is 1,4mm, so no serious squish. The combustion chamber is a casted one with a very radiused transition from the squish to the chamber. To restrict the max power and to get a lot of overrev the Yam engineers retarded the ignition dramatically and put some isolation material into the belly section of the pipe.
I believe the damage is linked to exessive heat into the piston together with detos (but where I don't have any good idea where detos may come from) . What do you think?
Juergen

[Frits Overmars]

Come on, Frits, I see you have a key for putting the umlaut in Konig ("Kyurnich," right?). You Europeans get all the good stuff.

No we don't; we help ourselves. Try hitting the " and then the o; that should give you a nice ö.

Is Hoeckle still in that business?

I think they are still in business, but unlikely to take on small series racing cranks.

[Frits Overmars]

These are pistons from my TZR250R 3XV, its the last 2 stroke road bike Yamaha build until end of the 90ies. It is bone stock and the first piston had only 8000km on it and the engine ran fine (WOT for approx. 2 min on the german highway) without any problems. Then one day when reving hard through the gears it made bang. Ok, fitted a other (used) piston in as it was planned to run it only until end of the year when a other engine will go in. But after another 800km again bang after high reving.
The engine is limited due to the Japanese legislation at that time to 45 rear wheel HP. The Squish is 1,4mm, so no serious squish. The combustion chamber is a casted one with a very radiused transition from the squish to the chamber. To restrict the max power and to get a lot of overrev the Yam engineers retarded the ignition dramatically and put some isolation material into the belly section of the pipe.
I believe the damage is linked to exessive heat into the piston together with detos (but where I don't have any good idea where detos may come from) . What do you think?

I thinks it's broken. Retarding the ignition dramatically will indeed put excessive heat into the piston, even if detonation, invited by the 1,4 mm squish gap, doesn't.
It looks as though the piston ring got caught by the underside of the transfers and with a near-melting piston it doesn't need much force to break away the top land. You might try to smooth those undersides, guiding the ring back into the bore when it nears BDC.