ESE's works engine tuner

[crbbt]

Hello Brains trust,

I am wondering if anyone can advise me on removing the powerjet tube that protrudes into carb bore?

specifically on a keihin spj.

The issue I have is that the tube's outlet/discharge is facing away from the carb slide and need to be rotated 180.

I am assuming they are a press fit but do not want to destroy the tubes or the carbs

Thank you!

[Peljhan]

That is what I was referring to earlier that I am almost certain that most dyno softwares are adding some level of "correction" that is not user adjustable.

Where I am, dynojet is the most popular commercial dyno around. There are two local to me that I have had bikes on and the outputs are similar. When I set up our Dtec dyno, the power numbers were very low, so I did the same as you and adjusted the MOI to get them as close as I could to the dynojet figures so that, whilst not perfect, there was some level of comparability.

I think Wobbly stated that DynoJet overcorrects for 15%
Do you know how much did you adjust the MOI from what it actually is?

Darren from Dtec said, their software is made on known basic equations and no additional factors are used.
Dynomec had some correction inside that was 1.30, exactly the difference with Dtec.

I also saw written on VHM page for their dyno tests:
- We measure on the rear wheel, but add a small correction factor (0.05PK/Kmh) for the crankshaft. So the graphs in the video's show the power on the crank.
What junk of correction is that? And definetly not small. For 50cc measured from 30-120km/h that is 1,5hp at bottom and 6hp at overrev. So for weak bikes it can double the power and for 1000cc bike is like nothing.

Thanks for suggestion Frits, but that was not the case as you can change from imperial to metric in the software. Downside is I can't choose HP/Nm/°C, only HP/lbsft/°F or kW/Nm/°C because we all speak in HP figures between friends.

[TZ350]

I am almost certain that most dyno softwares are adding some level of "correction" Where I am, dynojet is the most popular commercial dyno around.

It looks to me, that DynoJet's are a little bit optimistic but seem to give consistent results between individual units.

[F5 Dave]

At some point the horse(sorry) has bolted and something is so ingrained that we have to keep using it.
Dieters count in calories but really mean kilocalories and joules aren't in any conversation. Our wheels an TVs are inches. Although there was a Citroën that had metric wheels decades back apparently.
So I'm a wild hypocrite fervently defending the metric system and English language from being Americanised. But accepting some things like hp are probably best left fairly constant. It was bad enough with quoted hp being believed. Journalists are usually aware of this now, but still like waffling on about torque as if some mysterious motive force that is somehow produced independently and not mathematically constrained.
Anyway, rant for lunchtime.

[Frits Overmars]

It looks to me, that DynoJet's are a little bit optimistic but seem to give consistent results between individual units.

I once hooked my software onto the Dynojet of nearby Ten Kate (superbike world champ at the time), so each run on the Dynojet was simultaneously monitored by Dynojet software and FOS software. Clear outcome after a series of runs: when a bike delivers 100 hp on the dynojet drum, Dynojet claims it was 111 hp.

[F5 Dave]

Ok so let's play.
How would the 54hp of the RSA compare to either?

And is some of the conversion to bring it close to crank hp vs at the drum maybe?

[Sketchy_Racer]

It looks to me, that DynoJet's are a little bit optimistic but seem to give consistent results between individual units.

I once hooked my software onto the Dynojet of nearby Ten Kate (superbike world champ at the time), so each run on the Dynojet was simultaneously monitored by Dynojet software and FOS software. Clear outcome after a series of runs: when a bike delivers 100 hp on the dynojet drum, Dynojet claims it was 111 hp.

Yes, this is exactly my experience and conclusion.

We can all fool ourselves and enjoy seeing a larger 'measured' power output though....

[Frits Overmars]

Ok so let's play. How would the 54hp of the RSA compare to either?

It wouldn't. The RSA power is measured at the gearbox exit shaft. So no varying losses through a chain that loses its lubrication over time and above all no wildly varying losses through the distortion of a tire on a drum, which will heat up the tire, which will raise the tire pressure, which will influence the distortion.
Measuring rear wheel power may be convenient for various purposes, but not for engine development.

And is some of the conversion to bring it close to crank hp vs at the drum maybe?

If Dynojet would say so, I would be willing to accept that, even if their 11% exaggeration is neither a constant, because of the unpredictable tire losses, nor very realistic.
Total power losses between crankshaft and dyno drum will rather be in the order of 15%. But Dynojet just let you think that what you see on their software is the measured power.

[lohring]

By the way, one British horse power is 1.014 metric horse power. That's 33,000 ft pounds per minute vs 4500 kg meters per minute. Pounds and killograms are force, not mass for these definitions.

Lohring Miller

[JanBros]

started trying to make a very cheap DIY programmable ignition a french dude developed years ago :
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tDq2E59a49A
works up to 20.050 rpm for now (that's as fast as my motor goes)

didn't wat to polute the topic with it too much, so opened a new topic about this :

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131242121

[ApolloMotoMoto]

started trying to make a very cheap DIY programmable ignition a french dude developed years ago :
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tDq2E59a49A
works up to 20.050 rpm for nof (that's as fast as my motor goes)

didn't wat to polute the topic with it too much, so opened a new topic about this :

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131242121

Thats REALLY COOL.

Ignition system design and configuration is literally more "black magic" and "dark arts" than 2-stroke state of the art tuning theory is.

Its not horrendously complicated, nor does it require savant level electrical/ circuit knowledge...

But the "fundamental principles" and the "equivalent circuit" models that are best used to analyze and describe spark ignition systems are not ...well communicated... by the industry itself, or by those DIY'ers playing and sharing their work.

I am also doing a lot of work on "custom" ignition circuits that are open public knowledge.

I have a question for the other Guru's out there that have played with measuring and tinkering with ignition systems:


Is there a generally accepted "best setup" for an AC-CDI ignition dyno?

I want an electric motor that can spin, wall balanced and reliably, up to 20k RPM's.

I want some kind of "shaft rpm" readout because I wont always be testing with a full ignition system that would allow RPM reading off the tach-signal wire.

I want highly granular dynamic control of the RPM the motor is spinning at.


What motor/speed controller setups are people using out there for this kind of work?

[lohring]

I run electric RC model boats among others. Our electric motors easily spin much higher than that with over 3000 watts (4 hp) of power. What power or torque do you need? There are relatively inexpensive motors and speed controls available for lower powers. I use Castle Creations speed controls that have built in data loggers that read voltage, current, and rpm. With some more information I should be able to find you something for around $100 to $200 US.

Lohring Miller

[lohring]

After reviewing the other thread I see you don't need hardly any power. You could try drone motors and speed controls like these:

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/aircraft...cessories.html
https://www.amazon.com/Surpass-Hobby...%2C176&sr=1-19
https://www.amazon.com/Brushless-Ele...l%2C193&sr=1-9
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-...-rev1-1-0.html
https://www.amazon.com/VGEBY-Brushle...%2C193&sr=1-10

The motor's no load rpm = input voltage x KV The actual rpm will be around 80% of that depending on the load. I would run around 12 to 16 volts from any source or battery that can supply up to 40 amps. You control the speed with a servo input to the speed control. See below for a servo tester to do that:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B012LZKTDO...cards-ingress2

Lohring Miller

[diesel pig]

Hello Brains trust,

I am wondering if anyone can advise me on removing the powerjet tube that protrudes into carb bore?

specifically on a keihin spj.

The issue I have is that the tube's outlet/discharge is facing away from the carb slide and need to be rotated 180.

I am assuming they are a press fit but do not want to destroy the tubes or the carbs

Thank you!

I am not one of the Brains trust, But the only thing I can think of doing is use a industrail heat gun (not a Hair dyer as it would not get hot enough) to heat up the carb while it is in some kind of vise set up. Once as hot as you can get it use some soft nose piers to turn the tube. I am sure someone would tell us if that would work.

[katinas]

Thats REALLY COOL.

Ignition system design and configuration is literally more "black magic" and "dark arts" than 2-stroke state of the art tuning theory is.

Its not horrendously complicated, nor does it require savant level electrical/ circuit knowledge...

But the "fundamental principles" and the "equivalent circuit" models that are best used to analyze and describe spark ignition systems are not ...well communicated... by the industry itself, or by those DIY'ers playing and sharing their work.

I am also doing a lot of work on "custom" ignition circuits that are open public knowledge.

I have a question for the other Guru's out there that have played with measuring and tinkering with ignition systems:


Is there a generally accepted "best setup" for an AC-CDI ignition dyno?

I want an electric motor that can spin, wall balanced and reliably, up to 20k RPM's.

I want some kind of "shaft rpm" readout because I wont always be testing with a full ignition system that would allow RPM reading off the tach-signal wire.

I want highly granular dynamic control of the RPM the motor is spinning at.


What motor/speed controller setups are people using out there for this kind of work?

I use 1.5KW Air cooling Spindle Motor 24000rpm ER11 w/ 1.5KW Inverter VFD CNC, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/317553810908?, just older version.

But be careful if testing at home, loved ones can quickly leave you after constant testing !!!