ESE's works engine tuner

[speedpro]

OR go to these guys http://www.twostrokeshop.com/index.htm and ask for one of these http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm. Opps - you will need to click your way to the programmable DC powered CDI ignition. No more peak power to be had but I know from lots of dyno time and experimenting that you can boost the mid-range heaps.

You can actually get them from Wobbly here in NZ before he leaves for Oz and the TSS.

[TZ350]

.

Boosting the mid-range and a little over run past peak power is what I am after.

But Ooh the dilemma, make or buy? I did ask them if they could provide a unit for my KX80 ignition, they said "no" can do.

I can't see why not. I think something must have got lost in the translation.

I will ask them again but this time send photos of my ignition. The lack of a 12volt dc source (battery) might have been a problem.

The price is right.

Even if I eventually buy one, while I am looking into it, I am going to see if I can complete the J-Car programmable ignition.

Thanks for the tip and the pointers for making a better trigger, the trigger is my sticking point at the moment.

.

[TZ350]

I'd be going optical for the trigger. The LED/Trigger devices are cheap and then all you need is a chopper disc, easy. See this link for the sort of thing i'm thinking of. http://www.meccanisms.com/modules/xf...p?articleid=21

I would still like to see a circuit that works with a sign wave. I was hoping to use the out-put from the stator, becouse it's simpler.

But yes, this would give the 5volt sharp rising edge output signal that I need.

I will check Radio Spares and see what they have.

It shouldn't be hard to mount the sensor on the crank case and an interrupter blade on the flywheel.

Thanks.

.

[Bert]

You could always try a hall effect sensor, which would supply a 5volt signal. from Jaycar. Hall effect sensors are what they use on pitbikes, scooters and weedeaters etc (high reving).

As for your voltage issue, use a small 12v battery and run a 6-12 volt converter such as:
http://www.aaroncake.net/Circuits/6-12conv.asp.

thought this maybe of some use.

Cheers
Brent

[TZ350]

.

Thanks for the info Bert I will have a closer look at the Hall Effect sensor from J-Car.

Did not have time to get to Radio Spares today and I will be away for a week for work. But I remember seeing opto interrupters like Speedpro describes http://www.meccanisms.com/modules/xf...p?articleid=21 as end stops in older ink jet printers and floppy drives. I guess I will be hunting through the in organics when I get back.

The first picture shows one type of KX80 ignition with no pickup sensor. It must use the sign wave from the generator coil in some way as the timing point. Does anyone know how they do this. The next picture shows a different type of KX80 ignition with a pulser coil which probably would be ideal but the stator plate does not fit the GP easily. The third picture shows on the left some RGV250 pickup coils that probably would work and on the right some hall effect pickups from an old Mitzi L2000 distributor.

There should be something here to use. I am looking forward to getting onto it when I get back next week.

.

[Bert]

My setup for the TF100 is similer to that of the first photo. we made a backing plate that fitted between the stator plate and the engine mounts. I've also had a internal rotor RM stator which we also used the same backing plate (with more mods), so it has become quite useful over the years...
Good luck with the jaycar CDI; When I saw them, I though that it would be the best thing since sliced bread; so I was hopeing someone would sort them out.

[TZ350]

.

The setup in the first photo virtually fits straight into a GP125 but does not have a separate trigger pulse. How the Japanese make it trigger at a set point without it advancing/retarding I don't know. If anyone has a circuit diagram of how this works I would love to see it.

We have been running a RM80 ignition in the RG50 with an internal rotor like Bert describes. It has quite an amount of retard built into it. The idea is to over advance it at low rpm to get some low end drive and let it retard back to the correct setting as it comes onto the power.

Then as the rev's go up and it retards further it heats the gas in the expansion chamber (retarded ignition means hotter exhaust and sound waves travel faster in the hotter gas) and it fools the engine into thinking the pipe is shorter so the usefull rev's carry on a bit further past peak power.

The reverse happens when water is injected into the pipe below the power peak, for a moment the engine thinks the pipe is longer and it pulls from lower rev's.

The header section of the RG50's chamber has turned blue with heat. My problem is that without a dyno I don't realy know the shape of the torque (BMEP) curve and could easily over advance the ignition at low rev's trying to get it spot on for when it comes onto the power.

Does the blue header mean its retarded to far up top or is this a sign of correct (retarded) timing?? and every thing working OK. The whole retard curve could be too steep and will never be ideal. I just don't know.

Thomas says, get it onto a dyno, its the only (easy) way to find out and set it up.

This advance/retard and water idea is what we want to get working on the GP125.

When we get the RG50 figured out we can get on with the GP125.

I am looking forward to getting back to working on the J-Car programmable ignition and then water injection for the 125. A broader power band and more drive out of the corners sounds good to me.

.

[speedpro]

Put it on a dyno, stop pissing round. You make a change, do a run, and see exactly what effect the change has had. No bullshit, no guessing, no theories, just cold hard data.

[TZ350]

.

Always theory and questions first, I do like to understand what I am trying to achieve, then hard data.

Reckon your right speedpro, time to get the RG50 on a dyno to setup it's RM80 ignition and run the GP with its stock ignition to check the compression mod's and get a base line for later.

The 125's Jaycar programmable ignition needs more work before it's worth while dynoing it. I want to see the timing actually retard/advance with a timing light and be able to control it before giving it any dyno time.

.

[bucketracer]

Yea, speedpro think to be otherwise it's screwed up!!! again.

[koba]

I've built a jaycar kit too, Its for my Volkswagen but I was also going to experiment with it on the A100, but to do this I was going to graft a 12v RGV150 ignition system on to the A. I havn't looked into it too far as it is fairly down the list for me.

[TZ350]

Thats great koba, I was looking at using pickups from a RGV250 I guess they are like the RG150's. I will be getting back to mine after Taupo and would like to keep intouch with you about your progress.

[koba]

Sweet, dont expect much progress tho!
I have lots of other stuff on the go, as always and will probably get a loncin powered NSR up and running first.
I can let you know how it goes on the volkswagen tho, initially I have soldered it together to run on points, I will pull that out and try a more modern triggering system once I get it working ok. Type of system will probably be determined by what I can find and make work with VW dizzy drive easiest.
This is all so I have more accurate triggering for the EFI system I have sitting in a box!
to run a EFI is much longer down the track tho as I will need later, better twinport heads so will prob build a new engine for it.

[TZ350]

.

Well that was Taupo! a third in the GP

We learn't a thing or two, like the importance of keeping the momentum going and that corner speed is everything.

I could match Ricks (the GP winners) FXR for speed but he was the much better rider.

The CB125T ridden by Daniel Lancaster went past me in turn one near the end of the race in one of the smoothest displays of cornering that I have ever seen, we swapped places several times going up the hill and in the last lap but he had the drive out of the last corner to the line.

I got beaten in every race after a tussle by F5 Dave on his RG50, he was very good at keeping up the momentum and corner speed and that is one very fast 50 but he did have to work for it (I hope)

There was a very tidy looking GP125 from Wellington that took my 3rd place trophy in the Sundays racing.

But I have seen the promised land. The GP125 ran well, the motor would sound real sharp and make so much power the clutch would slip under full throttle in the first lap or two and then settle down as the engine heated up.

Man! that clutch can take a hiding, exited every corner like I was leaving the start line, 15 laps in the GP caning the clutch all the way and it all held together.

Many thanks to Thomas for his efforts in sorting the beast out.

Next year we need to find ways to keep the engine cool, Thomas has some ideas like ceramic coatings and water injection to suppress detonation.

Also Speedpro told me about how he had welded some extra heat sinks onto the cylinder head, and some other tricks (He is a clever basted). I wounder if this extra heatsink idea with some computer CPU fans that are thermostatically controlled would work.

To get a handle on the size of the problem we need to think about how much heat energy is involved. The rule of thumb is 1/3 is lost down the exhaust, 1/3 is dissipated in the cooling system and 1/3 does some usefull work.

So if you have a 16kW motor you have to dissipate 16kW in the cooling system, thats 16,000 watts or 8 big "two bar" heaters. Thats a lot of heat. These are very interesting ideas, but it would be a mistake to let them distract me from what I know I need to do.

Now that I have a half decent bike, to get any further I need to learn to keep up that momentum and corner speed.

Roll on next year, Taupo's great racing with very very great people. It was so excellent to meet up with the other Bucketeers from Wellington and ChristChurch

.

[speedpro]

Water cool the head, you know you want to. Don't worry about the barrell. The head is where most of the fire happens and the piston and barrell have the benefit of nice cold mixture swirling around and through them.