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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #33496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haufen View Post
    If one of the two lips has a spring, then this one is closer to the crank center.
    Thanks Haufen, but both sides have springs.

    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    .
    My experience with Yamaha RD and TZ crankshaft seals that had (I think it was Teflon) coated lips, was that the coated lip faced into the crank case.
    The Yamaha seals had springs on both lips. The mag side seal had Teflon on both lips and the drive side seal only had a Teflon lip on the crank case side. The drive side of the seal exposed to the gear box oil was a plain lip.
    I suspect the coating was to cope with the dirt and debris that gets blown through a road racing 2T crankcase. Whenever I took the cylinder off after a race there was a surprising amount of debris sitting at the bottom of the transfers.
    Thanks TZ. What I suspected.
    My post was a bit wrong. I think the whole seal is Viton, and the coated lip is probably PTFE.
    Interesting that the mag side seal on the Honda has just plain lips. Maybe it's not OEM.

  2. #33497
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lodgernz View Post
    I think the whole seal is Viton, and the coated lip is probably PTFE.
    Interesting that the mag side seal on the Honda has just plain lips. Maybe it's not OEM.
    I did not know Honda also had seals with coated lips. I thought it was just a Yamaha thing as my Kawasaki and Suzuki's did not have them.

    One of the issues I found with Yamaha coated seals was that they would curl up in the presence of Acetone. So when I ran my 50/50 mixtures of Acetone and Methanol I had to run Suzuki crank seals.

    It would probably be a good idea to soak the seals overnight in a jar of whatever fuel mix you are going to use, just to check the seals compatibility.

  3. #33498
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    I did not know Honda also had seals with coated lips. I thought it was just a Yamaha thing as my Kawasaki and Suzuki's did not have them.

    One of the issues I found with Yamaha coated seals was that they would curl up in the presence of Acetone. So when I ran my 50/50 mixtures of Acetone and Methanol I had to run Suzuki crank seals.

    It would probably be a good idea to soak the seals overnight in a jar of whatever fuel mix you are going to use, just to check the seals compatibility.
    Should be OK. Being a good law-abiding bucket racer, I only use 98 pump gas. Don't think there's any acetone therein.

  4. #33499
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    Quote Originally Posted by lodgernz View Post
    Should be OK. Being a good law-abiding bucket racer, I only use 98 pump gas. Don't think there's any acetone therein.
    Team ESE use fresh Av gas in their 2T Buckets because it is reliably consistent and so I have no real experience with 98. But I would be very suspicious about what sort of concoction is in it to achieve that 98 rating because it smells very nasty. I would definitely soak test the coated seals myself. Test is always best.

  5. #33500
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    Pretty sure there is a good % of toluol/toluene. A very good solvent.

  6. #33501
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    35%. that's why you can smell paint thinners when you first fire it up in the morning. It's only REALLY toxic so should be avoided if possible.

  7. #33502
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    Top tip: run some oil in there too. It helps lubricate the piston and the various crank bearings.

    Don't mention it.
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  8. #33503
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    Top tip: run some oil in there too. It helps lubricate the piston and the various crank bearings.

    Don't mention it.
    I think there's some oil in the gearbox. Does that count?

  9. #33504
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    If you nick the seal it might be like autolube.
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  10. #33505
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    If you nick the seal it might be like autolube.
    The crank flapping around in the seal acts like an oil pump and will pump oil from the gear box. Its a problem with our GP's. Not sure if its poor crank alignment, the GP crank flexing at 12,000 rpm or the C3 bearings allowing the crank to hop up and down. But it will shift most of the gear box oil in a days racing.

  11. #33506
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    I'm pretty sure the Viton slipped seals are primarily used for lower friction benefits.

    TZ350, didn't I see a post of yours years ago where you did some seal friction experiments?

    RS125 bulletin even mentions removing one of the seal clips for less friction I seem to recall

  12. #33507
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny quest View Post
    I'm pretty sure the Viton slipped seals are primarily used for lower friction benefits.

    TZ350, didn't I see a post of yours years ago where you did some seal friction experiments?

    RS125 bulletin even mentions removing one of the seal clips for less friction I seem to recall
    AFAIK Vitron is used as its one of the more durable rubbers in contact with fuel and solvents and wear. Its used on fuel needle tips as well
    Teflon is a low friction seal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




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  13. #33508
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    The crank flapping around in the seal acts like an oil pump and will pump oil from the gear box. Its a problem with our GP's. Not sure if its poor crank alignment, the GP crank flexing at 12,000 rpm or the C3 bearings allowing the crank to hop up and down. But it will shift most of the gear box oil in a days racing.
    Wow. Never seen that on my Hondas. Must be a Suzuki thing...

  14. #33509
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    the material of the seal must be adapted to the linear speed of the shaft.

    nbr is not suitable for high rotational speeds. the lips are burnt.

  15. #33510
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    Ready to start, at last. Just got to sort through this LINK, so different to what Im used to, way more complicated than the Atom.
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