Page 2432 of 2467 FirstFirst ... 14321932233223822422243024312432243324342442 ... LastLast
Results 36,466 to 36,480 of 37002

Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #36466
    Join Date
    2nd May 2020 - 21:05
    Bike
    Aprilia RS125
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by philou View Post
    I looked for data on the internet to be able to reflect and help him in his request.
    And It was useful indeed, to imagine where to add mm2. However it may be from another version of Rotax 122 cylinder. Mine is 220H, part number 223618, and the exhaust port is 29.5 mm tall in example.

  2. #36467
    Join Date
    13th December 2018 - 18:06
    Bike
    1983 yamaha rd 250
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    232
    Rotax 122

    On the Rotax 122 the cylinder with the number 223618 (220H) is installed. Again, there are inscriptions “Gilardoni 1” and “Gilardoni 2”, now on the side of the reed valve case, but the cylinders are identical. The cylinder is also available without the milled slot for the power valve.

    Support Channel (Gilardoni 2)
    Support Channel (Gilardoni 1)

    Cylinder 223618 220H aprilia with support channel

    Doesn't help much but it's a portmap.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rs125-portmap-223618-2.jpg 
Views:	89 
Size:	443.6 KB 
ID:	350464  

  3. #36468
    Join Date
    2nd May 2020 - 21:05
    Bike
    Aprilia RS125
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by andreas View Post

    Doesn't help much but it's a portmap.
    Thank you andreas. Very interesting. My cylinder has B and C top edges at same height though.

  4. #36469
    Join Date
    4th May 2018 - 20:26
    Bike
    Kreidler 1976 RS
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vannik View Post
    That is from a very old version of the EngMod2T preprocessor, Dat2T and is probably about 15 years old.
    Quote Originally Posted by philou View Post
    No.

    I did not design the engmod2t software, Vannik designed and developed it.

    I didn't make the file either.

    as no information was communicated by the applicant.
    I looked for data on the internet to be able to reflect and help him in his request.
    For me, it's about trusting data from any program. Not every program can be trusted blindly, and simple mistakes, such as in this example, can easily be made and can have major consequences.
    This old Engmod2t, is an example of this. Old version or not but add numbers must still be correct and a diameter calculation must still be equal to the area in mm2.

  5. #36470
    Join Date
    18th May 2007 - 20:23
    Bike
    RG50 and 76 Suzuki GP125 Buckets
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    10,272
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Finned Insert (1).jpg 
Views:	104 
Size:	750.8 KB 
ID:	350465 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Spigoted Insert.jpg 
Views:	116 
Size:	829.1 KB 
ID:	350466

    Having ruined the last RG50 cylinder and head insert. I figured I would make my own insert with some added features.

    As the new cylinder is going to be razed 2mm with a packer to get the port timing right. Instead of trimming the top of the cylinder I plan on spigotting the insert into the cylinder. I have heard that using a spigot has a beneficial effect on over rev detonation.

    And instead of a smooth combustion chamber water jacket wall I thought I will add fining to help with waste heat transfer from the combustion chamber and plug area to the cooling water. Does the fining look like a good idea or waste of time or worse, likely to cause problems? Comments welcome. I would love to hear from anyone who has tried this.

  6. #36471
    Join Date
    4th December 2011 - 22:52
    Bike
    Yamaha XJ750 1982
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    180
    Quote Originally Posted by HenkS View Post
    For me, it's about trusting data from any program. Not every program can be trusted blindly, and simple mistakes, such as in this example, can easily be made and can have major consequences.
    This old Engmod2t, is an example of this. Old version or not but add numbers must still be correct and a diameter calculation must still be equal to the area in mm2.
    I agree, the EngMod2T numbers will not change if the input is the same, the later version gives a lot more data. If the data is not right that was used as input I cannot help.

  7. #36472
    Join Date
    6th February 2012 - 08:54
    Bike
    1988 cagiva freccia
    Location
    france
    Posts
    166
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by HenkS View Post
    Old version or not but add numbers must still be correct and a diameter calculation must still be equal to the area in mm2.
    I never paid attention to this given in engmod.
    This calculated surface may be the surface corrected by the angles. giving an effective surface and not a geometric one.

    which would seem false, whereas it is what interests us mainly

  8. #36473
    Join Date
    20th January 2010 - 14:41
    Bike
    husaberg
    Location
    The Wild Wild West
    Posts
    11,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Flettner View Post
    I have managed this reverse pipe ok. Single cylinder 360cc, YZ 250X gearbox. Just double it up.
    doz piss

    the cams will be melted choc but the engine will not have lasted long enough to wear the gears.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	vf engine.JPG 
Views:	154 
Size:	129.8 KB 
ID:	350470
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  9. #36474
    Join Date
    4th May 2018 - 20:26
    Bike
    Kreidler 1976 RS
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vannik View Post
    I agree, the EngMod2T numbers will not change if the input is the same, the later version gives a lot more data. If the data is not right that was used as input I cannot help.
    Quote Originally Posted by philou View Post
    I never paid attention to this given in engmod.
    This calculated surface may be the surface corrected by the angles. giving an effective surface and not a geometric one.
    which would seem false, whereas it is what interests us mainly
    It looks like you both don't understand what I mean, but I will try it again.
    They are simply conversion errors from surface to diameter.
    At the underside of the EngMod2T picture of philou.

    EXHAUST PORT.
    main port eff.dia 34.85 = Area 852.13 is wrong.
    auxillery eff.dia 14.58 = Area 166.87 is right
    total port eff.dia 37.78 = Area 1019.00 is wrong.

    TRANSFER PORT.
    Port 1 eff.dia 24.99 = Area 488.58 is right.
    Port 2 eff.dia 16.68 = Area 213.71 is right.
    Port 3 eff.dia 17.16 = Area 132.62 is wrong.
    Total Port Area = 940.14 is wrong..


    All together 3 eff.dia's are right and 3 are wrong.
    Total transfer area is also wrong.

    It has nothing to do with corner corrections or with the input.

  10. #36475
    Join Date
    13th December 2018 - 18:06
    Bike
    1983 yamaha rd 250
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by HenkS View Post
    It looks like you both don't understand what I mean, but I will try it again.
    At the underside of the EngMod2T picture of philou.

    EXHAUST PORT.
    main port eff.dia 34.85 = Area 852.13 is wrong.
    auxillery eff.dia 14.58 = Area 166.87 is right
    total port eff.dia 37.78 = Area 1019.00 is wrong.

    TRANSFER PORT.
    Port 1 eff.dia 24.99 = Area 488.58 is right.
    Port 2 eff.dia 16.68 = Area 213.71 is right.
    Port 3 eff.dia 17.16 = Area 132.62 is wrong.
    Total Port Area = 940.14 is wrong..


    All together 3 eff.dia's are right and 3 are wrong.
    Total transfer area is also wrong.

    It has nothing to do with corner corrections or with the input.
    Maybe the area of the main exhaust port represent it's blow down area, and is it not possible that the third transfer port is corrected for the entry angle, as Philou suggests?

  11. #36476
    Join Date
    18th May 2007 - 20:23
    Bike
    RG50 and 76 Suzuki GP125 Buckets
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    10,272
    Quote Originally Posted by HenkS View Post
    TRANSFER PORT.
    Port 3 eff.dia 17.16 = Area 132.62 is wrong.
    It has nothing to do with corner corrections or with the input.
    Is the angle of entry to the cylinder influencing the eff.dia calculation compared to the measured area at the face of the port? In your example, Port eff.dia and Area, they could both be right.

  12. #36477
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
    Bike
    TZ400
    Location
    tAURANGA
    Posts
    3,516
    TZ350 - dont spigot , unless the material extending into the bore is a press fit , the edge of the squish step will overheat and create deto.
    Even then, if the bore is chromed you have another heat flow barrier surface.
    The basic idea is to find a way to keep the plug threads and the area above the squishband cool - but keep the back of the combustion chamber hot.
    TM have the chamber back enclosed in a solid step , that presses into the cover - but this keeps water away from the threads as well , unless you do some jiggery to have water flow accessing just in that area..
    Its very easy to have the inner surface of just the bowl ceramic coated to reflect combustion heat back into the gas and not wasted by disappearing into the water system.

    Edit - fins on the back of the chamber is just simply not right - the marketing gobbledygook " coolhead " comes to mind as plain old masturbation.
    \.
    Edit - port areas must always be quoted as the geometric area X the Cosine of the up or down angle - EngMod does this as should any port calculator.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  13. #36478
    Join Date
    20th April 2011 - 08:45
    Bike
    none
    Location
    Raalte, Netherlands
    Posts
    3,162
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    As the new cylinder is going to be razed 2mm with a packer to get the port timing right. Instead of trimming the top of the cylinder I plan on spigotting the insert into the cylinder. I have heard that using a spigot has a beneficial effect on over rev detonation.
    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    TZ350 - dont spigot , unless the material extending into the bore is a press fit , the edge of the squish step will overheat and create deto.
    Wob is right. And it will be even worse if the outer edge of the squish band is shaped to cooperate with a radiused piston timing edge. My solution is to spigot the head insert alright, but in a bigger diameter bore. This way the insert won't have a sharp outer edge.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG-20180531-WA0003.jpg 
Views:	81 
Size:	37.2 KB 
ID:	350472 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	FOS head insert-01.png 
Views:	143 
Size:	20.0 KB 
ID:	350473

  14. #36479
    Join Date
    12th March 2010 - 16:56
    Bike
    TT500 F9 Kawasaki EFI
    Location
    Hamilton New Zealand
    Posts
    2,535
    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    TZ350 - dont spigot , unless the material extending into the bore is a press fit , the edge of the squish step will overheat and create deto.
    Even then, if the bore is chromed you have another heat flow barrier surface.
    The basic idea is to find a way to keep the plug threads and the area above the squishband cool - but keep the back of the combustion chamber hot.
    TM have the chamber back enclosed in a solid step , that presses into the cover - but this keeps water away from the threads as well , unless you do some jiggery to have water flow accessing just in that area..
    Its very easy to have the inner surface of just the bowl ceramic coated to reflect combustion heat back into the gas and not wasted by disappearing into the water system.

    Edit - fins on the back of the chamber is just simply not right - the marketing gobbledygook " coolhead " comes to mind as plain old masturbation.
    \.
    Edit - port areas must always be quoted as the geometric area X the Cosine of the up or down angle - EngMod does this as should any port calculator.
    Kinda like this? Next time I have it apart Ill machine fins around the sparkplug root. The top cover acts like a gate and forces all the water through these grooves, machined just above the squish area.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20180925_182311.jpg 
Views:	206 
Size:	258.7 KB 
ID:	350474   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	USER_SCOPED_TEMP_DATA_media_upload2_1537753106864.jpg 
Views:	171 
Size:	139.2 KB 
ID:	350475   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20180924_133456.jpg 
Views:	160 
Size:	414.4 KB 
ID:	350476  

  15. #36480
    Join Date
    6th October 2015 - 13:42
    Bike
    2001 kx250
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    55

    Head Design

    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Wob is right. And it will be even worse if the outer edge of the squish band is shaped to cooperate with a radiused piston timing edge. My solution is to spigot the head insert alright, but in a bigger diameter bore. This way the insert won't have a sharp outer edge.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG-20180531-WA0003.jpg 
Views:	81 
Size:	37.2 KB 
ID:	350472 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	FOS head insert-01.png 
Views:	143 
Size:	20.0 KB 
ID:	350473

    Frits/Wobbly,

    The previous GasGas design used the “Spigot” design, are they also prone to detonation? I hate to assume, but the detonation mentioned is caused by end gases escaping between the head and cylinder bore? If memory serves the Wiwa also used this design.

    50E33258-93F2-4CD8-B9B0-9112D6D8239B.jpeg (182.9 KB)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2A263535-E59F-4121-914B-EB8E0BCA9A2B.jpg 
Views:	87 
Size:	396.9 KB 
ID:	350480   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BD13869E-DFBE-4CE3-A25F-B88219AD6F2F.jpeg 
Views:	99 
Size:	17.2 KB 
ID:	350481   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	50E33258-93F2-4CD8-B9B0-9112D6D8239B.jpeg 
Views:	100 
Size:	182.9 KB 
ID:	350482  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 11 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 11 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •