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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #31621
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    4th December 2011 - 22:52
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    Yamaha XJ750 1982
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    When the piston is moving upwards the space below it that it vacates is where the gas has to flow to. Most of it comes from the inlet so to minimize losses the inlet should be aimed at this space.

    Secondary flow into this space also comes out of the crankcase and transfer passages. We want to minimize this last one and one way to do this is to lower the primary compression ratio - one often forgotten secondary effect of large case volumes. Often the side effect of the Boyesen ports is just that, rather than flow out of the transfer passages the flow is out of the inlet cavity which promotes reed opening.

  2. #31622
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    16th April 2018 - 08:17
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    Ahhhhh, you guys are so smart! That makes sense...less turns to get the intake flow up the cylinder, where it mainly needs to go. I assume another key is to expose as many low pressure areas, in the crankcase, as possible to atmosphere to get the intake charge accelerated quickly. This creates momentum to pack the crankcase with extra charge as the flow comes to a halt, no? This may be getting too deep, but what about a high pressure wave coming back down the transfer duct after exhaust stuffing charge and TPC? There must be a return wave down the transfer duct(s) that meets up with the intake pressure wave somewhere in between?

  3. #31623
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    RG50 and 76 Suzuki GP125 Buckets
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	341293 125cc 1948 Villers Hayes Special. Open megaphones. Two Stroke.

    Found myself in Invercargill yesterday and dropped into Hayes Hardware Store.

    As well as the 125 Hayes Special I also wanted to take a look at Burts 200 mile an hour Indian Scout.

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    Burt started with an Indian Scout like this one and spent years developing it.

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    Heaps of hand made and broken parts from the Indian and the Velo he was also working on.

    The ever increasing speeds were painted along the top shelf of the broken parts he kept in his man cave come workshop.

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ID:	341294 Cleaned up and dressed in red for the museum.

    How it is now after what must have been a life times work. Certainly the later part of his life was devoted 24/7 to the project.

    In the end he managed a timed 200 mile an hour run at Bonneville.


    Video clip:- https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/74327263/null

    This video clip is of one of the film replicas but they do show what the bike looked and sounded like when Burt was actively campaigning it.


    And of course a YouTube clip from the film "The Worlds Fastest Indian" portraying Burts 200 mile an hour run.





    One man with a dream working in his shed, I guess we can all relate to that.

    .
    - Magic Weapons-

    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/for_website_magicweaponsanne-mariesbradyseptember2017.pdf

  4. #31624
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    23rd March 2015 - 21:24
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    thanks for that! love the "offerings..." shelf

  5. #31625
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    27th October 2013 - 08:53
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    some of you may find this useful. its a very nice thing and can print templates for making expansion chamber cones or cutting angles on pipes or making any size graph paper or making degree wheels of any size or many other things. https://www.blocklayer.com/

  6. #31626
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    20th January 2010 - 14:41
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    Quote Originally Posted by koenich View Post
    thanks for that! love the "offerings..." shelf
    In the offerings lower down is i think the aircraft engine head of a radial Curtis i think and a few broken alloy and complete rods.
    The aluminium alloy rods were never successful as he tended to use what he could find easliy.
    Although there was talk of him using a DC4 prop later on.

    The steel ones were better the early ones were made out of Ford Truck axels these broke but the later ones were from broken Caterpillar Grader axles these were heated and power hammered into the basic shaped and then bored at teh ends byt hand shaped for the rest with handtools files hacksaw etc.
    it used to take him a whole week which is about 100 hours for each.
    He only used std Rollers from a very early indian as he liked their radiused ends up until near the end it had a single 20mm crankpin for both rods.

    here is a pic of the original shelves in his workshop in 1972
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is the original Donaldson pre holidwood version.




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  7. #31627
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    27th October 2013 - 08:53
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Considering that the Aprilia had 1L/Hp/min of cold coolant flow entering the cylinder, all of it fed in under the duct I doubt its
    an issue.
    But having said that rerouting the flow on a 125 kart engine to all of the cold flow fed across the transfers first ( with only a small 3mm feed each side
    under the duct ) resulted in a good power increase.
    Maybe by default not over cooling the duct ( and thereby overheating the transfers ) is a superior methodology.
    give me your best guess if its worth trying this larger cap. will be about 11mm water on top and bottom of duct. about 6mm on the sides { sides will have half moon cap welded over the aux ears}. probly use a right hand rad from newer ktm 250sx . higher flow water pump driven from the crankshaft is what I have now but maybe use electric down the road if I get ign with power to run it
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #31628
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    .

    Ok its just another clip from the film but it does relate a famous beach race and that later the bikers were impressed enough to contribute financially to Burts next trip to Bonneville.

    - Magic Weapons-

    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/for_website_magicweaponsanne-mariesbradyseptember2017.pdf

  9. #31629
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    20th April 2011 - 08:45
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    Quote Originally Posted by peewee View Post
    ... will be about 11mm water on top and bottom of duct. about 6mm on the sides.
    You don't just want to push a lot of water through; you want to push it right along the hot walls. If you keep the gap tight, more of the water will come in contact with the walls, and it will flow faster as well. I'd consider 6 mm the maximum gap. If the pump can deliver enough pressure, I'd go down to 5 mm.

  10. #31630
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    27th October 2013 - 08:53
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    thanks frits that makes perfect sense. ill go back to my original plan

  11. #31631
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    13th June 2010 - 17:47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    .

    Ok its just another clip from the film but it does relate a famous beach race and that later the bikers were impressed enough to contribute financially to Burts next trip to Bonneville.
    I learned a few years back to be wary of buying a '60's road bike with Invercargill ownership. The Triumph I rebuilt looked like it had not only been beach raced - but left on the beach and dug up next day.
    Burt went to the US by boat of course. The trip was long enough that he'd take a vice and files and a set of part finished rods along - and finish them on board.
    Reason is a tool - remember where you left it..... The late, great, John Clarke

  12. #31632
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    Ok. Another bump in the road. The 2S EFI fuel injected two stroke Pesudo MAP thing works pretty well.

    BUT .... there seems to be another issue that comes up when the throttle is closed ie TPS = 0%.

    With the pseudo crankcase pressure MAP (Phigh - Plow)*3. I get a range of 0.2 bar, TPS = just open and motor firing to 0.9 bar, TPS fully open and engine firing. The motor responds to changes in MAP value just like you would expect.

    But with the throttle fully closed ie TPS = 0% the pseudo MAP value is 0.6 bar when it should be 0.2 at most. Maybe this is due to the atmospheric pressure at the stinger/muffler outlet overcoming weak suction by the pipe and pushing exhaust gas back into the crankcase.

    And without the suction action of the pipe the residual average pressure in the crankcase is higher than it would be if the throttle was a little open and the motor firing well enough to get some suction action going in the pipe.

    I think the 0.6 bar at closed throttle is the result of (Phigh - Plow)*3 working on a large volume/density of contaminated gases filling the crankcase whereas, as soon as the throttle is opened a fraction and the motor fires properly the pipe sucks on the crankcase and the pseudo MAP value drops back to 0.2 bar.

    The EFI CPU can't work with 0.6 bar for two entirely different situations.

    So the fix might be to bring the TPS into the mix and when it is = 0% then force the pseudo map to be 0.2 bar. Easy enough to do with some software changes and I hope to try it soon. There is another interesting project on the dyno at the moment so it might be a week or so before I can get back to the 2S EFI project.
    - Magic Weapons-

    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/for_website_magicweaponsanne-mariesbradyseptember2017.pdf

  13. #31633
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    20th January 2010 - 14:41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    I learned a few years back to be wary of buying a '60's road bike with Invercargill ownership. The Triumph I rebuilt looked like it had not only been beach raced - but left on the beach and dug up next day.
    Burt went to the US by boat of course. The trip was long enough that he'd take a vice and files and a set of part finished rods along - and finish them on board.
    Thats also where he found and cut up an aircraft radial. i cant remember whati t was but it used a Catalina spark plug.
    Whats not well known was he did all sorts of experiments turning the Indian into a single for grass track converting it to DOHC all sorts of wonderful stuff.
    After he converted the indian to OHV it took him a few years to get it back to how fast it was on a SV.
    The heads on the Indian were copies of a 1920's AJS.
    Ed Iskenderian (IE IEsky Cams)offered to buy the cams out of the Indian for a huge amount of cash Bert couldn't get them out fast enough.
    Yes he did use gas pipe fpr the cylinders but it made sense to as they were spun high grade cast iron
    The Velo wasnt that much slower than the indian either.



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  14. #31634
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    The trend has been for several years to reduce cooling water jacket volume and to increase flow velocity.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  15. #31635
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    6th February 2016 - 06:52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    .
    Ok. Another bump in the road. The 2S EFI fuel injected two stroke Pesudo MAP thing works pretty well.

    BUT .... there seems to be another issue that comes up when the throttle is closed ie TPS = 0%.

    With the pseudo crankcase pressure MAP (Phigh - Plow)*3. I get a range of 0.2 bar, TPS = just open and motor firing to 0.9 bar, TPS fully open and engine firing. The motor responds to changes in MAP value just like you would expect.

    But with the throttle fully closed ie TPS = 0% the pseudo MAP value is 0.6 bar when it should be 0.2 at most. Maybe this is due to the atmospheric pressure at the stinger/muffler outlet overcoming weak suction by the pipe and pushing exhaust gas back into the crankcase.

    And without the suction action of the pipe the residual average pressure in the crankcase is higher than it would be if the throttle was a little open and the motor firing well enough to get some suction action going in the pipe.

    I think the 0.6 bar at closed throttle is the result of (Phigh - Plow)*3 working on a large volume/density of contaminated gases filling the crankcase whereas, as soon as the throttle is opened a fraction and the motor fires properly the pipe sucks on the crankcase and the pseudo MAP value drops back to 0.2 bar.

    The EFI CPU can't work with 0.6 bar for two entirely different situations.

    So the fix might be to bring the TPS into the mix and when it is = 0% then force the pseudo map to be 0.2 bar. Easy enough to do with some software changes and I hope to try it soon. There is another interesting project on the dyno at the moment so it might be a week or so before I can get back to the 2S EFI project.

    Very interesting what you are finding, I'm not quite sure if I'm following you but I might be experiencing something similar to you...Ok hear me out! New KTM 125 on the dyno, I couldnt stand how hard the throttle was to turn, so I did the old trick I used to do when I raced and I took the spring out of the carb and took it to the belt sander, sanding off a bit of material around the DIA. After doing this I swear I can notice a difference in how hard it is to open the throttle in different running scenarios. I think it might be because I can now feel when the crank case has more pressure in it, so the slide has more resistance on it and it is a bit harder to open. If I do light throttle blipping I dont notice it, but If I go WOT to peak RPM and let it speed come back down, thats when I notice the throttle is harder to open next turn.

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