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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #33076
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    7th October 2015 - 07:49
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Pretty sure that is actually Katinas engine.............
    Good to hear you Husa, after all.

    Yes, this is very first version 129cc, with main (upper) piston 57mm and lower 38mm stroke 50.6mm, pumping capacity lowered from 129cc to 71,7cc, so 44.4% reduced. And maybe because of that, zero torque at mid range ( 3500 to 7000 rpm) on all three versions (with two different cylinders from Honda Ns and Cr and three different pistons). Good example where “compressors mode” is needed when engine is off the pipe range.
    In this video main piston is seized, only after I decide to test with very small amount of oil in fuel 1 to 100 and too little clearance for 2618 alloy piston .
    Good progress in upper range was with Cr 125 cylinder (with 58 mm main piston) at latest tests, but broken piston ring (simply because forget to adjust ring gap) destroy piston and this is where I end and so much left untested.
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  2. #33077
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    JB, good to see your progress, nice work and 32 hp at 6700 rpm from 250cc same like on Honda NSR 500 V2 1/2 at 6700 rpm (max 69 hp at 10250rpm)
    Be careful at playing with the oil amount.

  3. #33078
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    19th June 2011 - 00:29
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    would a pipe like this make any sense ? In my head it does ...

    would be for my MX moped with vario. once moving the rev's do not change much, but quite often we have to accelerate from an (almost) standstill. So I moved the steep cones forward to give more power when revving higher, but keep some suction/pushing back for the lower rev's to give the automatic clutch a less harder time and I can let it engage at a bit lower rev's which would make them last longer.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #33079
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    Na , that rear cone setup makes WAY less power everywhere.Been there tried that.
    Slippy pipe is the answer.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  5. #33080
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    13th December 2018 - 18:06
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    Everybody falls for the same idea, but what is the theory behind baffle cone profile? The wave bounces like a unity, and not by increments of the taper, I'm thinking.

  6. #33081
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    20th April 2011 - 08:45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanBros View Post
    would a pipe like this make any sense ? In my head it does ... would be for my MX moped with vario. once moving the rev's do not change much, but quite often we have to accelerate from an (almost) standstill. So I moved the steep cones forward to give more power when revving higher, but keep some suction/pushing back for the lower rev's to give the automatic clutch a less harder time and I can let it engage at a bit lower rev's which would make them last longer.
    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Na , that rear cone setup makes WAY less power everywhere. Been there tried that.Slippy pipe is the answer.
    I tried a two-stage reflector like that on a model airplane engine, where the power required by the propeller is proportional to the third power of its rpm, and the engine struggles to get through the torque dip before coming on the pipe. But I experienced the same as Wobbly: it's doesn't work.

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  7. #33082
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    ok, tnx, saves me the trouble of making one.

  8. #33083
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    3rd May 2017 - 04:03
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    creuzcopf

    Quote Originally Posted by katinas View Post
    JB, good to see your progress, nice work and 32 hp at 6700 rpm from 250cc same like on Honda NSR 500 V2 1/2 at 6700 rpm (max 69 hp at 10250rpm)
    Be careful at playing with the oil amount.
    I observe at the first prototype bottom brass liner wearing. In few hours +0.03 mm, seems brass was too soft or initial gap too big).
    On photo second prototype dont tested yet. Internal brass surface fit better and covered by inclined groovies.

    I have too small dyno, used pervert way = air brake or moulinette. Will think how make cheap dyno to better understand engine behaviour.
    I saw few years ago cheap dino drawings for cart engines. Cannot find anymore. May me somebody already have DIY dyno experiense?
    Hydro or edge current ???

  9. #33084
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    19th June 2011 - 00:29
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    a question before I can finalize my complete excel on porting and release it

    if for example upscaling an RSA125 to a 250 using standard MX bore/stroke of 66.4/72 , keeping the same STA numbers and BMEP as the RSA125, I get :

    rpm max power 9840
    rpm max torgue 9000
    max BHP 82.6
    Bd A.A 20913.1
    Tr A.A 158727.2
    effective Bd port area 1217.4
    effective port area transfer 1911.1
    with :
    Main Exh timing 198.4
    Aux Exh timing 190.7
    Tr A timing 128.6
    Tr B and C timing 130.6

    Anyone that can confirm ? Frits, if it's not too much trouble, can you do a sim with your software ?

  10. #33085
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    Sadly I think there is a fatal flaw in your power logic.The bmep achieved by the RSA was at 13000 rpm.
    There is no way you can achieve the same bmep at 9000 simply due to the intake and pipe wave amplitude being so much greater at the higher rpm level.
    This is shown by the actual numbers achieved by Honda with the 500V - best result after a few years work , was the factory bikes at around 70Hp/250cc cylinder at around 10,000 rpm with 68 square bore / stroke.
    Even that engine was fragile if reved to 10500 too often, as they were , with the usual results.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  11. #33086
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    20th April 2011 - 08:45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanBros View Post
    If for example upscaling an RSA125 to a 250 using standard MX bore/stroke of 66.4/72 , keeping the same STA numbers and BMEP as the RSA125,
    I get rpm max power 9840 ; rpm max torgue 9000 ; max BHP 82,6 . Frits, if it's not too much trouble, can you do a sim with your software ?
    It's not a matter of trouble Jan, but of incomplete data. I'd have to assume that all the data that you did not specify above, are equal to the RSA-data, which is doubtful because even their bore/stroke-ratios are rather different. I also assume that your 250cc engine will have reed valve induction, which makes it unlikely that you will be able to equal the BMEP of the rotary-valve RSA engine. Jan Thiel's experiments at Derbi showed about 10% power deficit between the best reedvalve engine and the best rotary valve engine of that era.

    Wobbly has a point as well with his Honda-data. But there is a bit of hope for you, as development has continued since that Honda-research,
    with the DEA 250cc kart engine (below) as an example. It reliably produces 72 hp at the chain at about 10.000 rpm, with reed valve induction.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #33087
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    8th November 2015 - 17:28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post

    DEA 250cc kart engine (below) as an example.
    It reliably produces 72 hp at the chain at about 10.000 rpm, with reed valve induction.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That picture is pure pornography.
    Do You have more like it and where?

  13. #33088
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanBros View Post
    a question before I can finalize my complete excel on porting and release it

    if for example upscaling an RSA125 to a 250 using standard MX bore/stroke of 66.4/72 , keeping the same STA numbers and BMEP as the RSA125, I get :

    rpm max power 9840
    rpm max torgue 9000
    max BHP 82.6
    Bd A.A 20913.1
    Tr A.A 158727.2
    effective Bd port area 1217.4
    effective port area transfer 1911.1
    with :
    Main Exh timing 198.4
    Aux Exh timing 190.7
    Tr A timing 128.6
    Tr B and C timing 130.6

    Anyone that can confirm ? Frits, if it's not too much trouble, can you do a sim with your software ?
    Remarkably good numerical simulation I would say.
    The DEA Frits points to is 72Hp.If Jan Thiels 10% more from rotary valves is valid it becomes 79 and Wobblys diminishing wave action takes three away.
    You are spot on.
    If two cylinder 50ccm was allowed by same logic they would be around 29Hp and sound funny

  14. #33089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niels Abildgaard View Post
    That picture is pure pornography. Do You have more like it and where?
    Yep, here you go Niels: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...rNTk89_KgwgWof
    That Google Drive is loaded with stripped racing engines and other two-stroke porn.

    By the way, apart from its reed valve induction, that 250cc DEA engine really is a scaled-up version of the Aprilia RSA125.
    No wonder, as DEA also builds the 250cc Superkart twin engine with rotary inlets, whose cylinders initially were carbon-copies of the RSA.
    Later DEA applied some porting modifications in order to improve the power band of his kart engine, which was not allowed to use the electronically controlled powervalve and powerjet that helped the RSA to its broad spread of power.

  15. #33090
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    24th February 2009 - 05:24
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    that's great news jbiplane, really happy someone went and did it and tested it!

    perhaps you could run a simple test to see if the gains are coming from having less friction, run it up to speed cut ignition and time how long it takes to stop? compared to unmodified engine if that's available.

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