ESE's works engine tuner

[Frits Overmars]

it lose 1,5-2 hp at mid, add 0,8 hp on top, add 3-4 hp over peak.

That can be either good or bad. I'd like to do a power range comparison. Can you post rpm-hp or rpm-kW listings of the original and the modified engine Katinas?

We have some doubt about rpm., maybe this needed some dyno calibration and more practice with this new thing , but for comparison tests its no matter... Add my drawing graphs for quicker comparisons.

I'd really need the listings, not the graphs, for a range comparison. But your last graph is already conclusive: the red and blue curves, and the green curve when rescaled along the rpm-axis, will completely enclose the black curve.

[katinas]

Frits, thank you for fine-adjustment.

[ceci]

I apologize for the inconvenience, just looking for a little motivation, to overcome a creative crisis. Having overcome it, now it's time to take care of my mental health (it would be best to turn off the personal computer and turn on the TV).
Excuse me if I'm absent for a while, I hope you understand it

[lodgernz]

A 2:1 gearing without gears. Interesting...

[peewee]

hey guys ive almost finished my reducer spigot. i wanted to do a more round shape but since the spigot was a after thought, i had to maintain the roof and floor angles that were already established in the cylinder. still i think it will work ok

[F5 Dave]

I can’t believe I’m asking for foul stroke advice, but there has been some input into Fuel injection here so perhaps there are some reference sources people are aware of.

My issue is tuning my 675 triple roadbike. I’ve wideband lamba/FA Meter run though the range ninetity zillion times on the dyno & happy with how it runs with the exception of a rev range 4-5000rpm & less than 10% throttle.

I found on the inertia dyno, closed & low throttle operation was nonsensical. Possibly with a brake dyno it might give reasonable readings, but I don’t have one. I'e
Given the meter back and due to position running it on the road would likely have seen it ripped out of the pipe.

Symptoms on the road are uneven running in this rev range/throttle position/and a sudden death response to closing the throttle slightly (ok nowhere near that bad but best way to describe it).
Which turns out to be surprisingly often if you are in traffic, but you might not notice it on a spirited ride.

I’ve tried progressively richening the mixture. This seemed to fix other ranges which I'm now happy with, but I now feel like I’ve gone too far in last problem area without fixing the issue & fuel consumption now drops with every increase.

All the sites I’ve found are aimed at “Should I get my bike tuned?”/ How does fuel injection work? Not much use.

None I’ve found are aimed at tuning symptoms. Rob etc, - through your searches have you found a decent site in your quest for FI perfection??

The Triumph ECU allows 3d map changes on this older model.

[speedpro]

I've got my FZR on my rolling road which has a large disc brake and Brembo caliper. It's perfect for running it up to certain loads and rpm and setting fueling. Recently tried it with "Quick tune" on the Link G4+ and it worked Ok but a bit hard to hold an exact cell for the 3 seconds required to calculate the ratio and then automatically adjust. I have found that making manual adjustments works fine however. I've decided to relocate to a less noise-sensitive area as even only going to 10,000rpm it's a bit noisy. Max revs and full boost will certainly get the neighbour's interested. I'm using the Ecotrons ALM which works great. The test output resulted in a perfect match with the Link.

[Grumph]

I got talked into sorting a bigger/older Triumph triple while things were in flux here post quakes.

It had symptoms very like you describe, Dave. What I did find was that they seem to be very sensitive to throttle synchronisation.
And checking the base settings on the TPS was rewarding too.
So try a good old fashioned vacuum synchronisation before anything else.

[F5 Dave]

Hmm I'll recheck but can do that in TuneECU software, last time is was bang on after tiny adjustment with the screwdriver to bring one cylinder in line from near, to perfect. Injectors are matched for flow.

[husaberg]

Hmm I'll recheck but can do that in TuneECU software, last time is was bang on after tiny adjustment with the screwdriver to bring one cylinder in line from near, to perfect. Injectors are matched for flow.

could be a resonance effect with the intakes and exhausts, if it is there will be progessively smaller shadows of the same dips and gains at different revs on the dyno curve over the rev range?
If so, try what honda does and vary (in your case one of the intakes length) to mitigate.
This is why CBR400's cbr600's etc and so forth have different trumpet lengths, two long two short.

[TZ350]

Symptoms on the road are uneven running in this rev range/throttle position/and a sudden death response to closing the throttle slightly (ok nowhere near that bad but best way to describe it). Which turns out to be surprisingly often if you are in traffic, but you might not notice it on a spirited ride.

All the sites I’ve found are aimed at “Should I get my bike tuned?”/ How does fuel injection work? Not much use. None I’ve found are aimed at tuning symptoms. Rob etc, - through your searches have you found a decent site in your quest for FI perfection??

The Triumph ECU allows 3d map changes on this older model.

The symptoms you describe are very familiar but the causes maybe different to mine. Mine are because the EFI system can't see large drops in air flow when the pipe is not sucking very hard. Or maybe our problems are similar with your system suffering from something like megaphone-its at the troublesome spot.

My engines running always improved when the length of injection covered the transfer window open time and it could run like a bag of poo if the injection timing was shorter or not at the right time. Maybe there are parallels with your inlet valve open time.

Other than basic EFI information I have not found anything on the net that goes into any real and intelligent depth.

Flettner told me that the timing of the end of injection is important on a 2T and this seems to be very true. Maybe that would be worth a look at on your bike too.

Your injection time is maybe only 40 deg at 4000 rpm 10% TP and where that injection end point happens in the total 720 degrees of a 4T cycle is going to be important too.

And the best injection end point will change with rpm, Ecotrons has a map for it. No point in firing fuel into air that is being blown back out of the inlet tract. In that case it wouldn't matter how much fuel was fired in it would mostly all get blown back out or maybe because of timing its just getting sucked straight through and blown out the exhaust and the cylinder is just left with random air fuel ratios.

Another thing to look at if enriching the map did not help, could the injector be too big. And with its minimum on time it cant be dialed down enough time wise to get into the correct air fuel range.

All injectors have a minimum on time, the trick with EFI is to run the smallest injectors possible to give yourself the widest tuning range possible. You can tell if an injector is to big because it flat lines at small throttle openings and runs rich.

[katinas]

"Rounded piston" tests with KTM SX 85 engine.

Black graph - std piston with small roundness on edge, from previous detonation.

[Grumph]

Hmm I'll recheck but can do that in TuneECU software, last time is was bang on after tiny adjustment with the screwdriver to bring one cylinder in line from near, to perfect. Injectors are matched for flow.

On some models the trigger on the cam is adjustable. Reading Rob's response reminded me as this adjustment changes injection timing. The air gap to the pickup can change response also.

[Frits Overmars]

"Rounded piston" tests with KTM SX 85 engine. Black graph - std piston with small roundness on edge, from previous detonation.

Very clear results Katinas .

[41juergen]

We have some doubt about rpm., maybe this needed some dyno calibration and more practice with this new thing , but for comparison tests its no mater.

Before tests - engine Ktm SX 65 2016, cylinder tuned, head - 4,8 cc with spark plug, gasket under cylinder 0,8 mm.

1. Black: std piston, head- 4,8 cc, squash - 0,65 mm, max ign advance, RON 98.

2. Green: rounded piston (0,8 mm X 0,8 mm), no other adjustments , so head- 4,8 cc plus volume of skimmed piston material (not measured) Ron 98.

3. Red : rounded piston, head matched to piston, head volume - 4,5 cc, max ign advance, squash - 0,65 mm, Ron 102.

4. Blue: same like 3. just ignition retarded to middle point (like std).

Black and Blue very similar at mid.

Power very sensible to engine temperature, so this graphs more or less bests from all tests. Of course, would be more informative test, if Ex/Trans duration and head volume (with matched to piston) be the same like with std piston, but maybe, later after track tests.

Add my drawing graphs for quicker comparisons.

Katinas, only to make sure: in your printouts from the dyno the temp, ambient pressure and humidity is the same for all tests. Do you have the "weather" station connected to the dyno software, does it get the actual pressure, temp and humidity for each individual run?
Thank's
Juergen