Page 2412 of 2429 FirstFirst ... 14121912231223622402241024112412241324142422 ... LastLast
Results 36,166 to 36,180 of 36425

Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #36166
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
    Bike
    TZ400
    Location
    tAURANGA
    Posts
    3,457
    Simple answer is 15* at peak power , if the com and squish are done correctly for the fuel,.
    You can flat line the bottom end @ 28* to where the PV starts to open or where the engine obviously starts to come onto the pipe.
    Advance past peak power depends on how much overev to max useable rpm there is , usually anothe 5* , then flat line at 10*.
    If you have too much overev retard , the egt will keep climbing in top gear against the aero load .
    Then you have to use extra fuel to cool the top end egt , not make Hp
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  2. #36167
    Join Date
    15th May 2017 - 14:26
    Bike
    2002 Aprlia RS125
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Simple answer is 15* at peak power , if the com and squish are done correctly for the fuel,.
    You can flat line the bottom end @ 28* to where the PV starts to open or where the engine obviously starts to come onto the pipe.
    Advance past peak power depends on how much overev to max useable rpm there is , usually anothe 5* , then flat line at 10*.
    If you have too much overev retard , the egt will keep climbing in top gear against the aero load .
    Then you have to use extra fuel to cool the top end egt , not make Hp
    Currently running 15.1:1 compression with a reasonable squish. Have another insert which would increase it a little more. So I should be bringing the final timing back and building in the over rev. My EGT is still too low I think. It’s in the mid 400. Have a new sensor coming with an open tip. 150mm from the piston face. Is that close enough?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #36168
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
    Bike
    TZ400
    Location
    tAURANGA
    Posts
    3,457
    What is the fuel and what power is it making ( what engine bore/stroke , whats peak power rpm to see what the bmep is ).
    As with a low bmep ( low dynamic com ) you can run more static com.
    What do you mean " reasonable " squish. You should be running the minimum allowable squish height short of clipping the head with an overev , and shoot for 38M/s squish
    velocity in most cases - generally around 50% area , and in a 50cc probably 0.55 squish.
    MSV is just a guide as if its done right , there is virtually no squish clearance above peak power.
    EGT tip should be on the header centerline about 3X Bore from the piston.
    400* isnt even warm , all race engines run between 600 - 700 *C depending upon the fuel and application.
    Here is an example with peak power at 13,000 , overev to 15000.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	50cc Ign.JPG 
Views:	216 
Size:	183.1 KB 
ID:	350195  
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  4. #36169
    Join Date
    20th April 2011 - 08:45
    Bike
    none
    Location
    Raalte, Netherlands
    Posts
    3,128
    Quote Originally Posted by jfn2 View Post
    Hello Frits... In your concept drawing your example shows a leading directional angle of 30* for the "A" port and it shows it intersecting the bore center line +/- 3/4 of the way down the bore center line from the exhaust port side of the cylinder....
    Is the angle more important or is the placement of the intersection point with the bore center line more important?
    Also could you explain a little more about the 'sum' of the axial scavenging direction degrees and how that is measured?
    The placement of the intersection point with the bore center line was not mentioned at all in my scavenging concept. I hope this answers your first question.
    Your second question is one of those seemingly simple questions for which there is no simple answer.
    In my "Leaning tower of Pisa" treatise I did my best to describe the fluid dynamics of scavenging without formulas. The formula for the axial scavenging angles was unavoidable, but it caused an avalanche of 'what is an arctangent?'-questions. But I do not intend to start a trigonometry course here...

    Calculating the axial component of the combined scavenging flows is not simple, and neither is measuring it. It can be done if you are a millionaire (which I am not).
    Google 'COMSOL Multiphysics' and you will see what I'm on about.

  5. #36170
    Join Date
    8th November 2015 - 17:28
    Bike
    1991 MZ 301
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    165
    Deleted as nonsense

  6. #36171
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
    Bike
    TZ400
    Location
    tAURANGA
    Posts
    3,457
    The crossing point of the A port front wall with the centerline is dependant upon the bmep , and that is largely set by the pipe efficiency.
    A fatter pipe with steep diffusser angles needs the crossing point close to 1/3 from the boost port to the bore center.
    Lesser pipes ( thus lesser bmep ) are around 1/2 way from the boost to bore center.
    Thats just my observation no science involved at all.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  7. #36172
    Join Date
    18th March 2012 - 08:35
    Bike
    Homebuilt chassi, Kawasaki 212cc
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    593
    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    400* isnt even warm , all race engines run between 600 - 700 *C depending upon the fuel and application.
    This is quite interesting.
    As i have noticed alcohol fuel as methanol makes the best power at ~450 degrees with probes as you mention(and e85 has similar levels).
    But!
    I have also noticed that Pipetemp is affecting powerband the most, power secondary.
    I can get almost the same power at different rpmīs depending on temp.

    This is very useful in dragracing, at the launch the torque is at a lower rpm level and running down the strip the temp gets higher and moves the powerband upwards, allowing for more topspeed.

    And as a little bonus for those who are interested, iīve made a dynorecord again with my tzr250 engine running on E85
    90.7hp at ~11000rpm(quite low rpm, and what made me post this entire post), exhausttemp starting at 430 degrees and climbing to 460 degrees at the end of the pull.(pipes are tuned to get peak power at ~11800rpm at ~600 degrees, my pulls in my dyno is quite short so the temp doesnīt rise as it should)

    How did i get this huge gain?
    Well, iīve been careful with ignition as this engine seems to like very high values (22 degrees at peak power, had 20 before)
    And as i am planning for new pistons and new plated bores i said to my self, to heck with caution, letīs send it =)
    I raised the curve even more at the left side of the peak, but canīt remember how much.

    It instantly gave me ~7hp.
    Iīm sorry to say i donīt have any movie of the pulls, but i got a screenshot of the curve(compared to old record)
    Almost no weathercorrection also, it means that the engine actually really produces that number.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	90.7.jpg 
Views:	134 
Size:	80.4 KB 
ID:	350198

  8. #36173
    Join Date
    8th December 2014 - 14:39
    Bike
    1980 Suzuki Gs1100E
    Location
    SWPA
    Posts
    132

    scavenging concept

    JanBros
    I do see that you can play with the concept and I will in time. I just have not done it yet. Thank you for offering that excel sheet and manual. I will use it.

    Frits
    I thank you for your reply and, as always, look forward to more of your wisdom both said and unsaid. I just have to train myself to read the unsaid parts a little more diligently. If I may comment on your 'Leaning Tower of Pisa' treatise. It was the most comprehensive writing I have seen. I have a pretty good little library on 2T engines and none of them could explain the workings of a 2t as well as what you wrote, at least that I could understand. Many thanks.
    I also looked up 'COMSOL Multiphysics' and I see what your on about.

    wobbly
    Thank you. That info and what Frits said (and didn't say) gives me some parameters to work with in JanBros's excel sheet.

  9. #36174
    Join Date
    2nd March 2013 - 15:04
    Bike
    CBX125F NS50F NS90F NS-1
    Location
    Lower Hutt
    Posts
    392
    I'd like some advice please from the more experienced tuners here. Would you say this cylinder has a steel or cast iron sleeve, or is it Nicasil?

    Sorry for the poor photos, they are the best I could get, and as it's a Japanese wesite, of course there's no information except what engine it fits.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	KN Planning cylinder-1.jpg 
Views:	112 
Size:	42.8 KB 
ID:	350199Click image for larger version. 

Name:	KN Planning cylinder-2.jpg 
Views:	98 
Size:	47.2 KB 
ID:	350200

  10. #36175
    Join Date
    13th December 2018 - 18:06
    Bike
    1983 yamaha rd 250
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    212
    A slight umbra sheen tells you it's nicasil, as does the lack of a perfectly round separation line.

  11. #36176
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
    Bike
    TZ400
    Location
    tAURANGA
    Posts
    3,457
    I have no experience with E85 , but if you gained a bunch of Hp with the peak also at 22* then that simply means your compression is too low.
    Running Methanol , when the com is correct , the ignition timing ends up back at exactly what was best for petrol,
    In a 125 MX based engine we ran around 16 : 1 then on Meth over 18 : 1 but with more advance it had to go so rich it lost power to stop it seizing.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  12. #36177
    Join Date
    18th March 2012 - 08:35
    Bike
    Homebuilt chassi, Kawasaki 212cc
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    593
    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    I have no experience with E85 , but if you gained a bunch of Hp with the peak also at 22* then that simply means your compression is too low.
    Running Methanol , when the com is correct , the ignition timing ends up back at exactly what was best for petrol,
    In a 125 MX based engine we ran around 16 : 1 then on Meth over 18 : 1 but with more advance it had to go so rich it lost power to stop it seizing.
    Yes, i actually decided to run quite 'low' compression.
    This to try to get pipetemp faster as alcohol fuel is quite hard to get temp fast, especially when running only 1/8 mile on the strip.
    (when testing compression i still got 170-175psi, normal for a oem dirtbike running on crapfuel)
    And secondary iīm also having a nitrousoxide system to activate when needed, thereby the 'low' compression.
    Iīm shooting about 20hp, and when activated it moves the powerband instantly up about ~1000rpm.

    If i would have built a dedicated trackracer i would have ran about 200-220psi and tuned the pipes a little bit different.

    E85 i would say is the best fuel that is easy to get, cheap and about 103-104 octane.
    You instantly get ~7% more power if tuning it correctly, with no other mods.

  13. #36178
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
    Bike
    TZ400
    Location
    tAURANGA
    Posts
    3,457
    I would try another tangent. Methanol makes the same power when run really rich , but I have found that the idea of using retard , or low com to get more heat in the pipe does not work at all.
    All that happens is you get more , cold , unburnt mixture being dumped into the pipe.
    With super high com you can get close to petrol pipe temps initially , by not going overich , then add some more fuel ,or a little retard to prevent deto or piston grief at peak rpm/load.
    By then the pipe is already as hot as its going to get.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  14. #36179
    Join Date
    18th March 2012 - 08:35
    Bike
    Homebuilt chassi, Kawasaki 212cc
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    593
    As is for now i run Ethanol(e85) But i have tried higher compression on methanol before, it actually didnīt turn out so well.
    Best numbers got way back then was with 15.5-1 in compressionratio.
    That was my single 212cc kawa kx250, it produced 69+ at the wheel as best.

  15. #36180
    Join Date
    8th November 2015 - 17:28
    Bike
    1991 MZ 301
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by SwePatrick View Post
    As is for now i run Ethanol(e85) But i have tried higher compression on methanol before, it actually didnīt turn out so well.
    Best numbers got way back then was with 15.5-1 in compressionratio.
    That was my single 212cc kawa kx250, it produced 69+ at the wheel as best.
    Can it be explained by friction ?There is a thermodynamical small gain going from 15 to 16 but there is also a at least 6% rize in friction from the piston ring

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 11 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 11 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •