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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #34471
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    28th August 2015 - 00:01
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    1975 Hodaka Wombat
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    Eugene, Oregon, USA
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    Model engines used a combustion chamber with much more limited cuts. The idea was to improve scavenging. Both the origonal designer and the manufacturer who "borrowed" the idea claimed around 1000 more rpm.

    Lohring Miller

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  2. #34472
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    20th June 2020 - 07:10
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    Case reed proposition

    I have an air cooled twin engine that shares the same bore and stroke as a more modern liquid cooled engine. The liquid makes very good power. I am essentially taking most characteristics from the liquid and applying them to my anemic air cooled turd. I have ground off the Cooling fins around the exhaust duct and welded up the area for auxiliary exhaust ducts before welding fins back on. Also welded up the floor and the bottom corner radii with aluminum sticks ( thanks for the tip wobbly ) will be doing the 75% nozzle on this and reshaping the duct to oval. The air cooled is a cylinder reed with very little intake area and no good way to add larger reed blocks due to the design limitations and rear studs. I know... I know I could cut the pistons and so on but I would rather have a nice inner transfer radius and a case reed air cooled. I have cut the reed blocks off of the liquid engine and am planning on welding them to the air cooled engine. Even though the bore and stroke is the same, the liquid has a taller case and shorter cylinder than the air cooled counterpart, due to the intake design amongst other reasons I am sure. There is not enough room between the crank bearings on the air cooled engine with the shorter upper case half ( the case splits horizontally ) for the liquid reed blocks to have straight unblocked flow into the crank case. The rectangle area of the aluminum after the pedals on the reed blocks is 2480mm2. If I keep the height the same and reduce the width to the width of the case between the bearings it would be 1953mm2 at the case. My idea was to make the reduction in width with a block of aluminum welded between the reed blocks that I cut from the liquid engine and the air cooled case. I know this would also add to the case volume and or intake length? ( If that makes sense to anyone I will be surprised ) This finally leads me to my question. Is it acceptable to have a smaller intake area after the reed petals at the crankcase, or would it be a better idea to transition the rectangle into a square of the same area? I ask this because I know the inner area of the reed block already is not the same as what is going through the reeds.

  3. #34473
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    You need to be looking at the effective window area of the reed block - having alot of extra area after the reed windows does not aid pressure recovery.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  4. #34474
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    13th December 2018 - 18:06
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    1983 yamaha rd 250
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    sweden
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    Quote Originally Posted by Condyn View Post
    I have an air cooled twin engine that shares the same bore and stroke as a more modern liquid cooled engine. The liquid makes very good power. I am essentially taking most characteristics from the liquid and applying them to my anemic air cooled turd. I have ground off the Cooling fins around the exhaust duct and welded up the area for auxiliary exhaust ducts before welding fins back on. Also welded up the floor and the bottom corner radii with aluminum sticks ( thanks for the tip wobbly ) will be doing the 75% nozzle on this and reshaping the duct to oval. The air cooled is a cylinder reed with very little intake area and no good way to add larger reed blocks due to the design limitations and rear studs. I know... I know I could cut the pistons and so on but I would rather have a nice inner transfer radius and a case reed air cooled. I have cut the reed blocks off of the liquid engine and am planning on welding them to the air cooled engine. Even though the bore and stroke is the same, the liquid has a taller case and shorter cylinder than the air cooled counterpart, due to the intake design amongst other reasons I am sure. There is not enough room between the crank bearings on the air cooled engine with the shorter upper case half ( the case splits horizontally ) for the liquid reed blocks to have straight unblocked flow into the crank case. The rectangle area of the aluminum after the pedals on the reed blocks is 2480mm2. If I keep the height the same and reduce the width to the width of the case between the bearings it would be 1953mm2 at the case. My idea was to make the reduction in width with a block of aluminum welded between the reed blocks that I cut from the liquid engine and the air cooled case. I know this would also add to the case volume and or intake length? ( If that makes sense to anyone I will be surprised ) This finally leads me to my question. Is it acceptable to have a smaller intake area after the reed petals at the crankcase, or would it be a better idea to transition the rectangle into a square of the same area? I ask this because I know the inner area of the reed block already is not the same as what is going through the reeds.
    Your "smaller" area of 1953mm2 is equal to a 50mm duct. In what engine is this maybe not enough?

  5. #34475
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    20th June 2020 - 07:10
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreas View Post
    Your "smaller" area of 1953mm2 is equal to a 50mm duct. In what engine is this maybe not enough?
    Im not quite sure what you mean by that. The 2480mm2 would be closer to a 50x50 window than the 1953mm2. One reason that I asked is because it would be quite a steep transition in a short distance.

  6. #34476
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    13th December 2018 - 18:06
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    Quote Originally Posted by Condyn View Post
    Im not quite sure what you mean by that. The 2480mm2 would be closer to a 50x50 window than the 1953mm2. One reason that I asked is because it would be quite a steep transition in a short distance.
    50mm round duct I mean, but its still quite big. Does the reed open more than 1953mm2? And the carb is also bigger, then this number is too small.

  7. #34477
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    20th June 2020 - 07:10
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    I definitely do not want to accept this reed block as the end all be all solution just because of the success that the liquid I am referring to has had. Maybe a smaller unit would work better. I do have Engmod2t but I want to physically build this engine and dyno it before I complete my model and simulate it. I think it will help me develop it more effectively that way. I will try to grasp the pressure recovery idea.

  8. #34478
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    So if you have EnMod , then its easy to calculate the effective reed window area.
    This is the important factor to be looking at to see if the reed itself will be deficient in area to a) match the carb size b) match the area needed for the power predicted.
    If the reed is deficient , then the obvious step is a VeeForce W reed.
    Part of the reason these work well is that invariably their much bigger window area is fitted into the original reed cavity area - and with a much less abrupt area increase exiting the reed tips this
    helps the pressure recovery.
    Making the reed cavity exit area into the case , smaller and smaller has been a trend over the last several years.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  9. #34479
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    18th April 2017 - 23:08
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    I have been sitting this weekend and going back and forth regarding how to handle the lubrication of the angle gear for the rotary valve.
    As I see it, there are 3 options.
    1. Handle lubrication for this part separately from main oiling.
    2. Make it a part of the crankcase
    3. Couple it with main lubrication through a passage for oil and one for vent.
    These variants all have different pros and cons, with amount of shaft seals, etc.

    Anyone done any similar solution?
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    No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

  10. #34480
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    18th March 2012 - 08:35
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    Homebuilt chassi, Kawasaki 212cc
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    Is it possible to use two different materials?
    Like steel in one gear and sintered in the other.
    I was thinking, it's like no load/forces on that axel.

    https://www.ascosintering.com/bevel-gears
    https://shop.hpceurope.com/an/produit.asp?prid=4386

  11. #34481
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    SwePatrick - that is a dangerous asumption as the Aprilia would break the RV drive shaft when certain numbskull riders would try to use the engine braking ( breaking ) like a 4T and
    change down gears , instantly hitting 14500 rpm. The inertial loads from spinning up even a carbon disc are considerable.

    My take on the drive setup would be a seperate small enclosed space with a seal on each end of the cross shaft.
    That way the you would have a minimal oil bath needed for the bevel and the LH bearing behind the balance disc only ( the balance disc does not need oil splash at all )

    Myself and Jeff Henise are looking at the same scenario for a 500 parallel twin with two RV across the front , needing individual discs as it runs 90* firing.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  12. #34482
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    12th March 2010 - 16:56
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    are you not better off just running two crankshaft disc valves, one either side.
    Or in the case of a twin, make it a V, one crankshaft disc valve per crankcase and a butterfly that opens the the case, opposite side, 24 / 7 when up at full power. A V allows room for this.
    And of course four injectors per cylinder. (mk2)
    I guess no reason not to do this as a single cylinder also, there by only needing one disc valve on one side, as per tradition.

  13. #34483
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    22nd November 2013 - 16:32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhr View Post
    I have been sitting this weekend and going back and forth regarding how to handle the lubrication of the angle gear for the rotary valve.
    As I see it, there are 3 options.
    1. Handle lubrication for this part separately from main oiling.
    2. Make it a part of the crankcase
    3. Couple it with main lubrication through a passage for oil and one for vent.
    These variants all have different pros and cons, with amount of shaft seals, etc.

    Anyone done any similar solution?
    Muhr,
    Without a full understanding of the design, I would think that the shaft bearings and gears could all be lubricated using the transmission oil. This would necessitate some careful design of angled channels and drillings to ensure the oil gets around. If you had the one (& only) seal behind the bearing adjacent to the disc valve, this bearing would have to be lubricated. Not sure on the overall angling of the unit, but possibly a drilling from the B port crankcase passage might be sufficient to create some flow. Maybe there is enough oil (from the mixture) migrating to the centre of the disc to get into the bearing.

    Some nice features in the design.
    "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.

  14. #34484
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    Been thru all the options for a twin Flett , a V cannot ever get anything like symetrical intake and Exhaust geometry.
    The KTM250 GP parallel twin engine running at 90* , with a balance shaft was I believe the best compromise for performance and KISS.
    Just add RVs driven by the balance shaft , and provision for Mk2 then it has the best of all the current ideas.
    Using the gib system on the RVs we can achieve virtually any open duration we want ( of course not 24/7 ) but from my experience of running at 95* closing the gain in top end
    and overev power is huge.
    Of course then the mid power is non existant , but with servo control of the opening and closing angles this wont be an issue.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  15. #34485
    Join Date
    20th June 2012 - 00:17
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    yamaha
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    Australia
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    203
    Reading back through the posts I came upon a part where you were talking about y-manifolds and how it can supercharge the other cylinder as the exhaust gases come out the port. This was only at 200 degrees of exhaust or above. Do you think this is much better than the 190 degree superposition on the same exhaust system

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