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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #34201
    Join Date
    4th December 2019 - 10:22
    Bike
    Honda NS1, TM EN144, Simson S51
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by katinas View Post
    Josh, with additional boyesens, try to close crankcase intake port ( fully or partially, red line) , this is very easy to do with the base gasket. It was like, close the door when another opened.
    Port map looks like really capable for 20hp.
    I will test that!


    Quote Originally Posted by lodgernz View Post
    Hi Josh. I believe that grinding away (i.e. raising) the separator between the A & B ports a few mm allows some of the charge coming through the Boyesen ports better access to the A port. Without this, only the B ports benefit from the Boyesen flow.
    Also, there are a lot of sharp edges on the lower cylinder outer that can impede flow. If you look into the reed cavity you'll see that the incoming charge has a lot of disturbance from these sharp edges and corners. Easy to smooth these off.

    Although you can't get any really nice after-market cylinders any more for these engines, you can get a 44mm stroke Italkit crank, and you can of course bore them up to 54mm. You might be able to find a Malossi 53mm cylinder, which are cast-iron but with quite nice transfers. The exhaust timing on these is mild, but as it is cast-iron, easy to improve.

    And if you really want to spend some money, get a VHM head with insert. They work well.

    After all that, it is really matching the pipe to the cylinder that will determine the power.

    Hi lodgernz,

    the ns1 engine is already a very short stroked engine (bore x stroke 48 x 41.4). Thats why I dont wont to go any further with the bore.
    The italkit crankshaft looks nice. Maybe I buy one.
    VHM head looks nice as well. But I want it low budget. Modified my head for 50 percent squishband and 1mm gap. Maybe there is some power to gain, if i test some different shapes and CR`s. Added a pic of a head I cut in halfs for research. I think there is plenty of meat for different shapes.

    Next step is to test Katinas idea. If I am not abel to get the boyesens working, I will close them with expoxy. Also I am working on some test pipes. But I am not the most experienced sheet metal worker, so it takes a while

    cheers

    josh
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  2. #34202
    Join Date
    20th April 2011 - 08:45
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    none
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    Raalte, Netherlands
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    2,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Ns1Montesa View Post
    Modified my head for 50 percent squishband and 1mm gap. Maybe there is some power to gain, if i test some different shapes and CR`s. Added a pic of a head I cut in halfs for research. I think there is plenty of meat for different shapes.
    Josh, why the 1 mm gap? 0,4 mm should be safe, and it will give a far better squish action and combustion velocity.
    There is plenty material in that head, but you can't afford to remove much of it. It needs all of its stiffness, because the studs are so far apart and there are only four of them. Keeping the head gasket in place could become a problem.

  3. #34203
    Join Date
    4th December 2019 - 10:22
    Bike
    Honda NS1, TM EN144, Simson S51
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    6
    Hi Frits,

    I already tested 0,45mm by accident. Used base gasket made of 1mm sealing paper. After I tigthened it up the gap was at 0,8mm. After testride the gap was at 0,45mm, because the paper could not stand the pressure. Luckily I noticed bad noises comming from the engine early enough. The result is shown in the picture
    I used thick sealing paper because I wanted to geht rid of aluminium plate + liquid sealing.
    Now I know that the crank is stiff enough for 0,45mm gap. But for some reason my engine is prone for detos.

    Hopefully I find a small lathe in near future, so I am able to do some heads.


    cheers

    josh
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  4. #34204
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    20th April 2011 - 08:45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ns1Montesa View Post
    Hi Frits, I already tested 0,45mm by accident. Used base gasket made of 1mm sealing paper. After I tigthened it up the gap was at 0,8mm. After testride the gap was at 0,45mm, because the paper could not stand the pressure. I used thick sealing paper because I wanted to geht rid of aluminium plate + liquid sealing. Now I know that the crank is stiff enough for 0,45mm gap. But for some reason my engine is prone for detos.
    Josh, 0,45 mm squish should make the engine more deto-resistant, but because of the squeezed base gasket the compression ratio will have risen quite a bit. Moreover, the squish geometry on many Honda engines is less than perfect, with mixture entrapment in the outer part of the squish area.

    You were lucky to experience the base gasket squeezing with that Honda cylinder with its long studs. Many cylinders with short studs and ears would show their displeasure by having an ear break off. Kawasaki and KTM are notorious in this respect. If you need to raise the cylinder more than 0,2 mm, better use a metal gasket, sandwiched between the thinnest paper gaskets you can find. Or do it the quick and dirty way and apply liquid sealing. And do not overtighten the stud nuts.
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  5. #34205
    Join Date
    18th March 2013 - 04:44
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    75 RD250b, 76 250C , 78 250E
    Location
    Poland
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    165
    Ditch paper gaskets and go with (gambit af oil 0,3; 0,5; 0,8;
    1,0;1,5; 2,0; 2,5;
    3,0; 4,0; 5,0; 6,0 ) or reinz rs gasket material (this starts at 1mm thickness)... It should be available in Germany.
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  6. #34206
    Join Date
    13th December 2018 - 18:06
    Bike
    1983 yamaha rd 250
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    115
    0.7 squish on this 64.8 stroke. 3 1-mm alu spacers and four gaskets because of ebay piston suppliers.
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  7. #34207
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
    Bike
    TZ400
    Location
    tAURANGA
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    3,200
    What Frits said.
    The closer squish will increase the com as well as increase the squish turbulence - that has the same effect as advancing the ignition by lifting the flame speed.
    You can pull out some advance if running a digital ignition , or simply retard the stator some.
    And yes , check that the squish band is not the many times stupid reverse taper , whereby the end gases are trapped at the outer edge , near the bore.
    With the exact result you have shown , piston edge deto.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  8. #34208
    Join Date
    4th December 2011 - 22:52
    Bike
    Yamaha XJ750 1982
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    105
    I know a lot do not follow the 50cc pages on Pitlane but there are some very interesting threads, in English!

    http://www.pit-lane.biz/t8449-dtt-gp50#442165

    http://www.pit-lane.biz/t6610-50cc-p...d-ktm50-tuning

  9. #34209
    Join Date
    13th December 2018 - 18:06
    Bike
    1983 yamaha rd 250
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Two points re pipe design and CVT.
    Firstly is that " fat " pipes are only effective on porting layouts that have good transfer duct geometry , and good radial port geometry.
    If the ducts are not " teacup " and the most important A port front wall is not pointing back to just in front of the boost port , then the efficient diffuser section easily overcomes
    the transfer stream coherency , giving huge short circuiting directly out the Exhaust duct.
    This makes the jetting appear rich , but in actuality the mixture within the cylinder may be burning at near optimum temperature.Lean this scenario down at your peril.
    A good example being a TZ350 that will simply refuse to make more power with anything past 110mm belly diameter

    Secondly , the clutching setup.
    As Frits alluded to , the clutching setup seems at odds with keeping the engine at peak power continuously.
    My experience with CVT is nill , but for many years we raced KT100 Yamaha with centrifical clutches and specially designed pipes to make alot of power over a narrow range.
    In this scenario the fastest setup was to have the clutch springs and weights " just lockup ", and allow the engine to sit at peak torque rpm under full load.
    Then from this start point , the gearing was selected to give peak speed just as it dropped over peak Hp.
    The clutch lockup rpm was critical to within 100rpm and was typically 10400 rpm , and the pipe was over the top at just past 14,000.

    Because of A-port entry angle, this cylinder (as is) can't benefit from a modern style wide diffuser?
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  10. #34210
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    TZ400
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    tAURANGA
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    3,200
    Plenty of room to change the angle with a hook as the duct goes around the corner.The Exhaust duct is WAY too short as well , weld on a cooled extension to stop hot gases from being shoved
    back past the rising piston by the rear cone.
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    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  11. #34211
    Join Date
    13th December 2018 - 18:06
    Bike
    1983 yamaha rd 250
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    115
    Thanks Wobbly

  12. #34212
    Join Date
    8th December 2014 - 14:39
    Bike
    1980 Suzuki Gs1100E
    Location
    SWPA
    Posts
    100

    EngMod2T file

    Has anyone completed or even started a EngMod2T file on the Kawasaki KX 65cc engine? I just picked up a Kx65 and want to build a file on it. I do not have the engine apart yet, and probably won't be able until the grandson is done running it, to check any measurements. I hear it is blowdown defeicant. Any knowledge from anyone? I am pretty sure it is stock. I checked with Vannik and he doesn't have a file so I'm asking in the forums. Thanks for any help. Jeff

  13. #34213
    Join Date
    13th December 2018 - 18:06
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    1983 yamaha rd 250
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    115
    Playing with my new slip roller.
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  14. #34214
    Join Date
    20th June 2020 - 07:10
    Bike
    ETEC 800
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    29
    Make a cone guide so you can quickly roll accurate cones without further manipulation.
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  15. #34215
    Join Date
    18th March 2004 - 17:38
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    1971 suzuki T350R,1980 suzuki GSX1100
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    the best island
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    390
    Quote Originally Posted by Condyn View Post
    Make a cone guide so you can quickly roll accurate cones without further manipulation.
    That would be very interesting to see that working. Please let us know how you get on with it. Cheers
    Compare Pornography now to 50 years ago.
    Then extrapolate 50 years into the future.
    . . . That shit's Nasty.

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