ESE's works engine tuner

**TZ350** · 29th May 2017, 14:50

**jasonu** · 29th May 2017, 15:26

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

Far more important; bragging rights.

and some fat $stacks$ too.....

**SwePatrick** · 29th May 2017, 17:01

A little more progress.
1st race in ~3 weeks.
Are tuning the engine as we speak.
And 211.2cc on methanol sounds angry at 13000rpm

Will post a video later on when i got it fully tuned.

**Flettner** · 29th May 2017, 17:34

Originally Posted by Grumph

Opposing it on "prior art" grounds ?

Best case outcome would be a payoff from KTM - which wouldn't be bad surely ?

Nah, not interested in a payout (it would never happen anyway) I just think it would be a bit rich if KTM have patented my idea and legally leaned on me when I start production of my own injected engines.
The idea behind showing it off on the internet was so the technology is available for anyone to use if they so wanted. Couldn't be patented , prior knowledge according to my patent attorney.
He said they are probably bluffing.
Yes Dave, I could live with bragging rights

**SwePatrick** · 29th May 2017, 18:11

Originally Posted by Nath88

That's exactly the problem I'm having now... I've been experimenting with measuring the crankcase pressure instead of exhaust, just after transfers open. Under 25% throttle once on the pipe (7000 up) the pressure is lower than at 0% throttle... then over 25% the pressure starts going up. Which makes sense, the scavenge effect of the pipe drawing against the mostly closed throttle. But as you said, no good for a normal 4 stroke style ECU, it expects a linear input. I should put up some graphs of the data collected. Perhaps if you sampled the pressure before and after the transfers open then take the difference. The ability to write the code specifically for the engine is where KTM has a massive advantage.

At the moment I'm working on modifying the ECU code to capture the highest peak of the exhaust pulse as the port opens. I think this will be a good indicator of how much wave energy has gone into the pipe. So far the best results have been with the exhaust pressure at the powervalve vent. The PV housing was acting as a damper, smoothing the pressure pulse so the ECU could catch the peak easily, signal was a bit too smooth so I'm trying other methods, trying to nail an analog carb feel on throttle transitions. If the code mods don't work out (I'm no programmer), back up plan is to use a 'precision peak hold' circuit on the map sensor, then using the ignition output to reset the circuit at the start of each cycle. You could implement this on your ECU easily enough.

I often use pipe pressure as a measuringtool when tuning twostrokes.
I weld a bung on the middle of the 'Belly' on the pipe.
Then connect the pipe through the bung to a simple turbopressure gauge.
To even out the pulses a bit i use a simple fuelfilter in-line on the hose.
I also use a restrictor before the filter, between pipe and filter just to get the pulses less intense.

Maybe it works the same way, but instead of a pressuregauge, you can put a mapsensor, 0-5v.

(And as we speak i use an adjustable 'restrictor' as the bung has two functions now.
When not measuring pressure i use the bung to pressurise the fueltank, with this restrictor i can adjust fuelpressure.)

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**ief** · 29th May 2017, 19:04

This guy claims it's not a KTM patent at all (?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1TVszsAXc8

**husaberg** · 29th May 2017, 19:56

Originally Posted by 1948rod

Hi I have a reverse cylinder tz250 in pieces. It has spare y1 and y2 cylinders. Can these cylinders be bored out to fit Tz 350 Pistons to put onto a kart for hill climbing.

No idea but unlikely, Hans Hummel made a 350 cylinder conversion kit for the V twin though.

Originally Posted by 1948rod

Are the Tz cylinders Able to be fitted to a spare Rgv bottom end.

Anythings possible given enough time and money

Originally Posted by 1948rod

Would these cylinders be much better than bored out rgv barrels.

No need to bore out RGV cylinders use either Arctic Cat ZRT600 2001 cylinders or RG200 they both bolt on to RGV's
As do RG150 wolf.

There was a guy who made up a close to 400cc 1kt TZR using DT200 cylinders and a stroked crank, But WR200 cylinders would have been better.

**husaberg** · 29th May 2017, 20:05

Originally Posted by Flettner

Husaberg, your the search engine of choice, can you find the KTM patent on this new TPI system? Keep digging until you get traction.
Mostly interested in the date it was filed.

I couldn't find it the other day they don't list patent numbers which suggests to me they either don't have international pattents yet or they are pending.
Either that or they are not in their own name.
I find it hard to believe Boyseen never pattented it, they pattented just about everything else.

**jonny quest** · 30th May 2017, 06:42

Let me know if going after KTM works Flettner. That would give me motivation to go after Suzuki with their VVT on the GSXR 1000.

**jonny quest** · 30th May 2017, 06:49

Apparently there will be no tuning software available from KTM for the new FI 2 stroke offroad models.

That's going to complicate things.....

**Tim Ey** · 30th May 2017, 07:01

Originally Posted by jonny quest

Apparently there will be no tuning software available from KTM for the new FI 2 stroke offroad models.

That's going to complicate things.....

Even for offical KTM Dealers this has been standard (on foulstroke): You may choose between standard mappings for different countrys and Akrapovic mapping with / wo catalysator.
Nothing more .

**jonny quest** · 30th May 2017, 07:53

Originally Posted by Tim Ey

Even for offical KTM Dealers this has been standard (on foulstroke): You may choose between standard mappings for different countrys and Akrapovic mapping with / wo catalysator.
Nothing more .

KTM used to offer a tuning kit for sale for the 4 strokes. Available to the public. They don't offer that anymore. Harley Davidson was fined by the EPA for selling/allowing customers to modify EPA regulated settings. KTM has decided they didn't want to be liable. So no software will be able from now on.

Hopefully hackers will step in

**Brett S** · 30th May 2017, 14:59

Here's an old Rotax patent from 2004 with twin conventional injectors in transfer ports but aiming into cylinder area: CLICK HERE

Latest one from rotax 2016 combining DFI with indirect FI (IFI?) and it's control system: CLICK HERE

BEtaMotor has gone a different way in 2017 with IFI? almost throttle body injection: CLICK HERE:

The biggest hurdle to playing with these KTM's will be getting someone to reverse engineer the KTM ecu's algorithm's and map locations and more importantly share it.
If KTM allowed the world to tinker with it the improvements would come much quicker. Unfortunately this won't happen.

**41juergen** · 30th May 2017, 19:03

To all who have more experience with EngMod than I have:
are the shown temps reasonable for a setup with a cooling water temp of approx. 50°C in the head (like in the RSA125)?

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**wobbly** · 30th May 2017, 19:42

Here is the file that gives good dyno correlation for the RSW.

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