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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #27736
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    Ex opens 80 ATDC Trans 114 ATDC.jpg

    Building another Suzuki GP100 NSR 110 hybrid using a re plated but standard NSR250 cylinder.

    Stroke 48mm Bore 54mm for 110cc ... (an NSR is 54 x 54).
    Inlet opens 140 BTDC closes 80 ATDC
    Exhaust opens 80 ATDC
    Transfers open 114 ATDC

    The shorter stroke gives me a very useful increase in blow down time area without having to do any porting at all.

    Head Spigot.jpg

    The cylinder sits on a 12.5mm spacer plate, the head is spigot ed 2.5mm into the cylinder and the cylinder also has 2.5mm skimmed from the top, 0.65mm squish.

    Head Gasket controls water flow.jpg

    Using the standard head gasket so as to control the water flow around the cylinder.

    De Stroked Crank.jpg

    Yamaha RD400 2T2 rod with solid pin and flat big end bearing cage. The balance factor turned out to be 55%. I was looking for 50% so next time I will use a smaller Mallory slug opposite the bigend.

    Inlet opens 140 BTDC closes 80 ATDC.jpg

    The whole motivation for this engine is to have a smaller diameter inlet tract.

    So I am leaving the original 24mm inlet tract un touched. Previously I would have made this as large as I could get away with. but an earlier dyno test with the variable inlet valve suggested there was not much top end in it and a noticeable difficulty in getting the carburation right at the lower end of the torqe curve just as the engine was coming onto the pipe.

    Blue variable inlet Closed Red Open.jpg

    This is the dyno graph that has inspired me to try a smaller inlet tract. Red is the variable inlet open and equivalent to about 32mm and Blue is closed and about equivalent to a 24mm inlet tract. Top end is much the same, the difference seems to be just a little over rev.

    Below are some links to the earlier Suzuki six speed, water cooled, drysump GP100/NSR hybrid.

    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Attachment 331569 Attachment 331568

    The two basic items needed for adapting a NSR125 or 250 cylinder to the bottom end of your choice to make a go fast water cooled Bucket engine.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Attachment 329021

    How to make a decent light weight racing 12 Volt generator stator for the Suzuki GP/TF/TS RG50 from a Lifan aftermarket magneto kit.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    This is Team ESE's formula for a reliable 110cc water cooled Bucket racing Engine.

    The VeTec or variable inlet area story. Follow the links back to see the pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    I am hoping this V Tech inlet idea will add an extra 1000 or so rpm on the bottom end
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Fitted the divider tonight and bolted it all up. Hopefully it lasts long enough to see if it has any merit in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Ok.... got the V Tec variable inlet onto the dyno.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    This is the RC Servo that I am going to use to close the V Tec below 7,000 rpm.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    My approach decreases the size of the inlet tract when the inlet closing point is reduced, this keeps the inlet tract gas velocity up.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Finaly got the V Tec working ...... Video of the V Tec in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeB9O6rtLXQ

    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Attachment 241278

    Tried the V Tec, works and cleaned up the carburation.

    Attachment 241277

    Blue line inlet soft closes 98 ATDC Red line 88

    It beats me how closing later picks up some mid-range and loses over-rev.
    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    In most race applications I have found that 88* is the best compromise.
    But that over 90*the troublesome carburation effects overcome any power advantages that you would expect.
    As I said in another post - rotary valve tuning is as much about timing ( usefull STA ) as it is about ameliorating the issues with tract resonance affecting the A/F ratio actually seen in the case, and thus the combustion process.
    Your intake is relatively long now - thus the resonance effects are seen earlier, and stronger.

  2. #27737
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    28th March 2013 - 04:29
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    Wobbly can you provide some dimensions of KZ10 engine, piston height (after or before chanfer), rod dimensions, are the cylinder bolt fitting similiar to Honda RS?

    The parts for them are not very expensive and makes a serious consideration for tunning other engines.

    Cheers

  3. #27738
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    Have a look at www.superkart. it
    Piston size is listed

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

  4. #27739
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    Alot of info is within the CIK homologation papers.

    And TeeZee, I have simply drilled a hole into the Mallory with a carbide drill before to correct overbalancing ie an 8mm hole in a 20mm tungsten.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  5. #27740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Ages ago, with asbestos gaskets.
    As one would expect its all been done before.
    I came accros this tube video therefore the thought erupted.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b_gh4R7vfkA
    If its wise to isolate the cilinder from the exhaust this might be worth a try?

    S

  6. #27741
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    And TeeZee, I have simply drilled a hole into the Mallory with a carbide drill before to correct overbalancing ie an 8mm hole in a 20mm tungsten.
    Great tip, I had not thought of that, thanks.
    - Team ESE -



  7. #27742
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    Again, Franco at TM is doing the opposite - all factory supported engines now do not run the thick gasket they used to have between the spigot and the cylinder.
    And the spigot flange is recessed deeply to remove material.
    This I cannot believe is an " accident " so cooling the spigot by allowing access to the duct cooling water ( that is directly behind the spigot face ) is " better ".
    Seems very odd that he secretly believes that having a hot duct will be better, but in practice is doing the opposite to cool the spigot.
    In my opinion the cylinder duct should be at least 15mm longer, moving the cooled zone outward,and thus increasing the volume of cooled plugging gas.
    The TM has a 61mm long duct so its very little longer than 1 bore size, the volume is quite small with 78% area at the spigot face,so in this case I believe longer ( and cooler ) would be better.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  8. #27743
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    Do you lose power in the lower part Wobb

  9. #27744
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Alot of info is within the CIK homologation papers.

    And TeeZee, I have simply drilled a hole into the Mallory with a carbide drill before to correct overbalancing ie an 8mm hole in a 20mm tungsten.
    There is alot here yes
    https://www.google.pt/url?sa=t&rct=j...st0FWsJlgmH3ir

    But not the cylinder bolt pattern.

    if only you can check that

  10. #27745
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    .
    Back to the EFI thing and the problem of determining if the engine has fired or not and the subsequent fuel demand for the next stroke.

    Following Nath88's suggestion of measuring the exhaust pressure pulse and Flettners suggestion of differentiating between the outgoing pulse and the return pressure wave by timing the sampling point.

    Aduino Micro PLC.jpg

    I brought an Arduino Micro PLC, a relay kit and some Piezo sensors all for less than $10. The plan is to have a pulse trigger on the flywheel that corresponds with the exhaust port opening and a pressure sensor in the exhaust tract close to the exhaust port. When the Arduino see's both pulses in align it opens the relay thereby switching the EFI CPU to a different fueling map.

    WIKA pressure transducer.jpg

    Or there are some of these Wika pressure transmitters lying around work. There is a variety of pressure ranges up to 500 bar. So I could easily measure the combustion pressure directly and when its over a certain threshold ie the engine has fired then the 4-20mA output through a small power transistor could be arranged to switch the relay.
    - Team ESE -



  11. #27746
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    What do you need the relay for?

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

  12. #27747
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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel62 View Post
    What do you need the relay for?
    Performance Switch.jpg

    The Ecotrons EFI software swaps maps when it see's this switch closed. So I was starting with the clean voltage free contacts of a relay but I really hope that I can do it with a transistor.
    - Team ESE -



  13. #27748
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Performance Switch.jpg

    The Ecotrons swaps maps when it see's this switch closed. So I was starting with the clean voltage free contacts of a relay but really hope I can do it with a transistor.
    Can't you just wire directly to arduino from ecotrons ecu.? I don't think you will need the relay as there is no current

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  14. #27749
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    It will sadly enough not be a smooth transition when switching maps i guess.
    This leads to hesitations etc etc.

    You need to read pipe pressure dynamic and a compensationtable to add fuel related to different pressures.
    Exact same way in a 4stroke turboboosted engine, but there its way more simple.
    The mapsensor has a much easier work.

    The thing is to invent a mapsensor that takes the pulses in exhaust with ease, and survives.

    Rgds.
    Need custom racing twostroke parts?
    Crankshafts, Heads, rotaryinlets or almost whatever.
    https://www.facebook.com/AMV-Product...9802399786466/

  15. #27750
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwePatrick View Post
    It will sadly enough not be a smooth transition when switching maps i guess.
    This leads to hesitations etc etc.

    You need to read pipe pressure dynamic and a compensationtable to add fuel related to different pressures.
    Exact same way in a 4stroke turboboosted engine, but there its way more simple.
    The mapsensor has a much easier work.

    The thing is to invent a mapsensor that takes the pulses in exhaust with ease, and survives.

    Rgds.
    Maybe a DPF differential pressure sensor. That should work

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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