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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #26941
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    1st May 2016 - 13:54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanBros View Post
    what do you wanna know ? just the basics to get it working or every tiny little detail (my french ain't perfect neither) .

    is there a better topic (one about ignitions for exapmle) to discuss this, as I only come to Kiwi-biker for the ESE topic ?
    That's OK, I can cut and paste the bits I need into an online translator.

    Like oldjohnno stated, I will probably adapt it as a trigger for CDI.

    Happy to follow this topic to wherever is appropriate.

    Cheers, Daryl.

  2. #26942
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    This talk about ignitions is very helpful to have here as we are always interested in something better for our Buckets. Thanks...
    - Team ESE -



  3. #26943
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    12th March 2010 - 16:56
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    TT500 F9 Kawasaki EFI
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    I'd be interested in a 'dumb' CDI, a 12v one that just needs a four volts signal to trigger it. A four volt signal from the Link ECU. The Link will sort the timing and tell the CDI to do it's job, at the right time.

  4. #26944
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    4th May 2016 - 21:50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flettner View Post
    I'd be interested in a 'dumb' CDI, a 12v one that just needs a four volts signal to trigger it. A four volt signal from the Link ECU. The Link will sort the timing and tell the CDI to do it's job, at the right time.
    I think most CDIs could be triggered by an ECU without too much effort. Most automotive boxes are set up so that they can be triggered in either of two ways: one is via a pair of wires connected to a variable reluctance coil (ie. trigger coil, pulse coil, reluctor or whatever you want to call it), usually set up so that the CD fires when the signal changes polarity as the "lump" passes by the coil. The second method is a single wire that is switched to ground via a set of contact points or a Hall sensor, and these fire when the path to ground is broken. If this wire was connected to ground via a resistor, and the signal from the ECU was also connected via another pull-up resistor then I think it would trigger.

    The main problem with automotive boxes on bikes is their sheer bulk - it can be difficult to find room for them. I avoid MSD stuff; the quality and reliability has gone down the toilet in recent years.

  5. #26945
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    12th March 2010 - 16:56
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    I've built a 12v CDI years ago, and it's SCR was triggered by a 4v pulse. Trouble was it is large unit to house and I didn't have any advance retard circuitry. The Link will output a 4v square wave pulse, this would trigger an SCR .
    The Link will sort all the timing calculation then send out the pulse at the correct time.
    What I would like is a small 12v CDI that's easy to house and or build with no timing circuitry just a basic unit.

  6. #26946
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flettner View Post
    What I would like is a small 12v CDI that's easy to house and or build with no timing circuitry just a basic unit.
    Jaycar kit KC5466 $31.90+gst

    https://www.jaycar.co.nz/kits-scienc...omotive/c/102C

    Use the High Energy Ignition kit KC5513 $67.90 to charge the capacitors in the KC5466 CDI kit.

    Or make you own 12V to 300V DC DC converter. http://www.eleccircuit.com/dc-power-...m-battery-12v/

    Or you could use the high voltage windings on a (Chinese) stator/rotor kit to charge the KC5466 CDI kit's capacitors, plus have 12V available for running the EFI system.

    Stator and Rotor Kit.jpg

    One of those Chinese scooter CDI's might be worth a look too.

    There are two types AC and 12V DC

    Scooter CDI.jpg

    The power feed can be 12V dc from the battery. This type has its own internal DC DC converter to charge the CDI capacitor. The AC version gets it's high voltage for the CDI capacitor from the engines stater. These are cheap on Trademe for $25 or so.
    - Team ESE -



  7. #26947
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    4th May 2016 - 21:50
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    I tested some of those Chinese CDs, most of the four stroke versions have a goofy advance curve built in. The little blue anodized two-stroke units ("New Racing") have a somewhat usable retard curve that's fairly linear. None however have enough output to pass the surface-gap-plug test.

  8. #26948
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    9th September 2013 - 06:34
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    Suomi
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    Hi all. I've been enjoying this thread for 4 years now I think, and I thought maybe it's time to finally post something. I'm 21 years old and from Finland. I have been into twostrokes since 2011 when I bought my first motorized vehicle, it was a chinese 50cc scooter. It didn't take long when I already had the cylinder and dremel in my hands. But the scooter, and other mopeds I have had since then, have gone now, but I still have one. Let me present my current "bucket":




    It's a popular chinese 125cc pit bike, the 4 stroke engine I ditched and welded mounts for a AM6 engine I had lying around. It has a KX80 radiator, and just recently I elongated the rear swingarm, as the bike wheelied a bit too easily preventing fast launches. In Finland, those chinese pit bikes are called "Samurai" bikes because there was one brand of pitbikes called that, so I call my bike Samurai AM6.



    The cylinder is a 68cc 60euro Ebay cylinder which has been generously lightened by dremel. I have welded the exhaust port divider from a slice of old cylinder and surprisingly enough it has held up 30 minutes of running and very hard revving and there are no marks in the piston or ring. Transfer ducts are also improved with some JB-Weld.

    I also have my homemade programmable ignition (maybe this is what made me to post, as you have just discussed about ignitions):



    It works directly with the AM6 original Ducati stator/flywheel, and is CDI type. It uses the same microprocessor as an Arduino Nano. My version does not use an Arduino board, but I have published a schematic and Arduino source code if you want to make one using an Arduino Nano board:

    schematic: http://imgur.com/QiBRoR2
    arduino code file: http://www.mediafire.com/file/2pwpai...cdi_3.2_en.ino

    It is designed to work with the Ducati stator internal trigger coil which gives a special signal, but I think it should work with a regular 2-wire pickup you can find from scooters. If it doesn't work, you can try bypassing capacitor C5 with a wire and removing resistor R7. So basically it will work with just about any AC stator which has a high voltage charging coil and a pickup. CDI can be powered with a 9v battery, if you remember to disconnect the battery after riding, it will last for some time. But it can also be powered by 12v system, through the 7809 regulator in the schematic.

    Personally I have not build one using a Nano board (as I'm professional and make my own board with surface mount components ), so I have a slight concern that there might be something in the code that needs changes. But at least one guy here has build one according to my instructions and he got it working. At least the circuit should be good, at first there were reliability problems, but current version has worked quite a long time now, and has been run to 16000rpm without problem.

    I have made a couple of exhaust pipes by hydroforming. This is the latest, not very pretty but works to some extent.



    It has been designed with Frit's exhaust pipe concept, though I'm afraid that due to my poor fabrication, the dimensions do not exactly match. This pipe is about 700mm long as I wanted to try some real mens RPM capability of the engine. Cylinder timings are about 190/125. With this pipe powerband is hilariously high, about 12000-15000rpm. Carburetor is a cheap 26mm PWK. Currently I'm getting about 13-14 rear wheel HP at some 14500rpm. I use the GSF 'street dyno' for measuring power. I think power is quite low compared to rpm, but extracting real BMEP turns out to be very hard.. I am amazed of some results posted in this thread. I dream of breaking 20hp someday haha.

  9. #26949
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    14th November 2015 - 03:28
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    Hi

    Lots of good information, thaks for that.

    The reason why i now writing is that palezu-cdi with arduino. I made and test it. Works fine, but there is some little problems with advance tuning. Needs to mount in engine that can idle so i can find where the problem is... By the way i don't understand really much about electronics or that arduino code, i just follow the instructions
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #26950
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    7th September 2009 - 09:47
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    Quote Originally Posted by palezu View Post
    Hi all. I've been enjoying this thread for 4 years now I think, and I thought maybe it's time to finally post something. I'm 21 years old and from Finland. I have been into twostrokes since 2011 when I bought my first motorized vehicle, it was a chinese 50cc scooter. It didn't take long when I already had the cylinder and dremel in my hands. But the scooter, and other mopeds I have had since then, have gone now, but I still have one. Let me present my current "bucket":




    It's a popular chinese 125cc pit bike, the 4 stroke engine I ditched and welded mounts for a AM6 engine I had lying around. It has a KX80 radiator, and just recently I elongated the rear swingarm, as the bike wheelied a bit too easily preventing fast launches. In Finland, those chinese pit bikes are called "Samurai" bikes because there was one brand of pitbikes called that, so I call my bike Samurai AM6.



    The cylinder is a 68cc 60euro Ebay cylinder which has been generously lightened by dremel. I have welded the exhaust port divider from a slice of old cylinder and surprisingly enough it has held up 30 minutes of running and very hard revving and there are no marks in the piston or ring. Transfer ducts are also improved with some JB-Weld.




    I also have my homemade programmable ignition (maybe this is what made me to post, as you have just discussed about ignitions):



    It works directly with the AM6 original Ducati stator/flywheel, and is CDI type. It uses the same microprocessor as an Arduino Nano. My version does not use an Arduino board, but I have published a schematic and Arduino source code if you want to make one using an Arduino Nano board:

    schematic: http://imgur.com/QiBRoR2
    arduino code file: http://www.mediafire.com/file/2pwpai...cdi_3.2_en.ino

    It is designed to work with the Ducati stator internal trigger coil which gives a special signal, but I think it should work with a regular 2-wire pickup you can find from scooters. If it doesn't work, you can try bypassing capacitor C5 with a wire and removing resistor R7. So basically it will work with just about any AC stator which has a high voltage charging coil and a pickup. CDI can be powered with a 9v battery, if you remember to disconnect the battery after riding, it will last for some time. But it can also be powered by 12v system, through the 7809 regulator in the schematic.

    Personally I have not build one using a Nano board (as I'm professional and make my own board with surface mount components ), so I have a slight concern that there might be something in the code that needs changes. But at least one guy here has build one according to my instructions and he got it working. At least the circuit should be good, at first there were reliability problems, but current version has worked quite a long time now, and has been run to 16000rpm without problem.

    I have made a couple of exhaust pipes by hydroforming. This is the latest, not very pretty but works to some extent.



    It has been designed with Frit's exhaust pipe concept, though I'm afraid that due to my poor fabrication, the dimensions do not exactly match. This pipe is about 700mm long as I wanted to try some real mens RPM capability of the engine. Cylinder timings are about 190/125. With this pipe powerband is hilariously high, about 12000-15000rpm. Carburetor is a cheap 26mm PWK. Currently I'm getting about 13-14 rear wheel HP at some 14500rpm. I use the GSF 'street dyno' for measuring power. I think power is quite low compared to rpm, but extracting real BMEP turns out to be very hard.. I am amazed of some results posted in this thread. I dream of breaking 20hp someday haha.
    Brace the swingarm where you have cut and welded it before it kills you.

  11. #26951
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    9th September 2013 - 06:34
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    AM6 70cc pitbike
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    Suomi
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    Good note. It has been internally braced

  12. #26952
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    19th June 2011 - 00:29
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    Quote Originally Posted by palezu View Post

    I also have my homemade programmable ignition (maybe this is what made me to post, as you have just discussed about ignitions):



    It works directly with the AM6 original Ducati stator/flywheel, and is CDI type. It uses the same microprocessor as an Arduino Nano. My version does not use an Arduino board, but I have published a schematic and Arduino source code if you want to make one using an Arduino Nano board:

    schematic: http://imgur.com/QiBRoR2
    arduino code file: http://www.mediafire.com/file/2pwpai...cdi_3.2_en.ino
    looks interesting but I can not use it, as my MX-moped does not have high-voltage stator coils.
    any chance you can post a full-english arduino .ino file ?

    mounted the hall-sensor on my moped today and have spark, now need to find a coil (used a twin lead coil for testing)

  13. #26953
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    20th April 2011 - 08:45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanBros View Post
    when starting, the throttle valve is down and almost completly closes the crankcase. one could say that their is only a small "leak" : not enough to push everything that the piston moving down is pushed out through the carb and so some make it into the cylinder.
    How is this for a 'small leak' ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfzY...ure=grec_index

  14. #26954
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    I liked when he twisted the throttle and went "waaarp waaarp"

    So, has your FOS cylinder been tested in anger yet? Maybe its posted elsewhere.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  15. #26955
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    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Great, looks like a lot of interest in the 24/7 concept....

    A couple of mid 20's hp 70cc engines using common aftermarket cylinders.

    Aftermarket cylinders have been seen on one or two fast buckets here, easy to do if you are keen on racing a competitive 2T.

    https://youtu.be/Zd8eVkd4yZk

    https://youtu.be/GGJi86H6M4Y

    My favorite is this big 30+ hp NOS scooter.

    https://youtu.be/RjPSD2e3p70

    I would love to see a dyno result and Youtube clip of a 70cc turbo 2T engine if anyone has one.
    - Team ESE -



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