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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #35941
    Join Date
    18th March 2012 - 08:35
    Bike
    Homebuilt chassi, Kawasaki 212cc
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    Sweden
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    584
    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post


    I just love the sound of this ........
    My build
    Not me filming, it was the owner of the bike the engine belongs to, who filmed it(and a dutch stole the vid and earned a lot of money on it)
    It runs even harder now, but i have changed the dynosetup from performance trends to sportdevices so numbers aren´t comparable.
    But we have run into problems, we need to modify the clutch as the one´s we tested can´t take the power.
    We dynoed 68hp in new dynosoftware WITH slipping clutch.

    I am impressed by the engine so far, NOTHING has happened to rotary assemble(crank,conrod,piston)
    We ran with huge clutch problems low 8´s in quarter mile this summer, we ran about 30runs, no issues at all besides that clutch.

    We actually run quite small carburetors(lectron downdraft 34mm)
    We have a 38mm setup also, but we need to figure out the clutch first and make use of the power it produces as is first =)

    At the very dynoday of 68hp we ran locked cvt to figure out how the powerband looked like.
    The last pull of the day when i have freshened up the clutch and washed it with vinegar essence(old trick) it actually hold the clutch, for a while until the belt broke..
    That pull just before the belt said goodbye the powerband was 13hp higher at the point where it happened.
    So dreaming of that 13hp could be all through the whole powerband it might have been 81hp

    And,, it runs HARD!!
    Just need to dial it in, but covid has taken out a lot of races in Sweden this summer so we only had one to go to.

  2. #35942
    Join Date
    8th December 2014 - 14:39
    Bike
    1980 Suzuki Gs1100E
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    SWPA
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    124

    lower compression

    Thank you very much, wobbly and Frits for your reply's. Do I have it right in saying..... If I come up with a good pipe design and I have the ignition correct and I use lower octane gas I will get a power increase if I use lower compression. But if I came up with a good pipe design and I have the ignition correct and I use higher octane leaded gas I will get a better power increase because compression is power? The engine I am working with is a 340cc twin for a snowmobile. Bore is 62mm, stroke is 55.6mm and con rod length is 112mm, so it is very close to a TZ 350 Yamaha. I understand about the TZ pipes. I have been trying the dimensions in Greg Bennett's book on Yamaha racers but have yet to come across one that gives very good power. I set my rev limit to 11-12250 rpms for peak in Engmod2T but still working on it. Again thanks. Jeff

  3. #35943
    Join Date
    20th June 2020 - 07:10
    Bike
    ETEC 800
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    86
    Try closer to 10,000 rpm for that Polaris 340. Try a TL of around 1040-1050mm with a 32-33% header 66%ish diffuser and see where that gets you. I run 15:1 compression on my twin Yamaha sled engines right now but also plan to try to develop something closer to 12.5-13:1 on the next build. The only reason I have not done that yet is the large amount of pipes I have built for the 15:1 engine.

  4. #35944
    Join Date
    8th February 2007 - 20:42
    Bike
    TZ400
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    tAURANGA
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    3,416
    The TZ350 pipes are limited by being able to find room on the bike and to stop corner grounding.
    Also the fromt wall of the A port isnt angled back enough and anything like a good pipe would short circuit like hell.
    The 350 bikes/pipes I have built using modern ignitions are all done by 11000 @ 80 odd Hp on Avgas , but in Dr Jeffs LSR engine it ran 110 octane with 17:1 and would redline at 12,000 all day
    with fat pipes ( 128 ) and 1280* on the egt with over 100 Hp.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  5. #35945
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    8th December 2014 - 14:39
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    1980 Suzuki Gs1100E
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    SWPA
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    124
    Condyn
    Yes I have been working with 33% and 66% pipes on 950mm pipes and they seem to be coming up pretty good. The 950mm pipes seem to max at 10500rpm and I have ran a pipe with 40% and 66% at 950mm and it tops out at 10250 and it pulls strong. But I feel the motor should pull around 11750rpm. But if wobbly said he could get good power at 11,000rpm that's good for me. The problem is I'm not getting near 80 hp but I'm working on it. Thank you for your reply. I saw the pic of your sled you posted. Nice looking pipes. What does the plaque say on the pipe?

    Wobbly
    Thank you for your reply about the 350 Yamaha's. I'm going to have to go with reeds on this engine if I'm to get much more power out of it. I did one of these engines back in 1973 and it dyno'ed at 66 hp and I thought that was good with what we knew back then. But I installed reeds then. Who is Dr Jeffs? And what is a LSR engine? Thank you for all your help. And I will look into the 'A' port angle.

  6. #35946
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    TZ400
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    tAURANGA
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    The TZ350 engines in racebikes will rev to 11,000 but the 80 RWHp is down at 10500.
    Here is all the info ( short of seeing the EngMod file ) on getting 100+ Hp from a TZ350.

    https://www.facebook.com/jhenise/pos...58657273846228

    This has reeds fitted on it so is really relevant to what you are wanting.
    Its Dr Jeff Henise's Land Speed Record holding TZ350 , at Bonneville it broke the speed record @ 170.519 mph on petrol , non streamliner , stuck in 5th gear pulling 12,000 - 200mph is achievable in 6th.
    That engine used a bored TZ250 G cylinder with a Banshee 58mm stroker crank.

    The other point is that you will never get any race engine to make decent peak power , and to have overev , with anything like a 40% header.
    If anything nearly all the conventional pipes I do these days are closer to 30%.
    The header and short first diffuser length total ,heavily influence peak and overev performance , the diffuser end cones length and angle shapes the front side power.

    Edit - to help you out here is nearly the final pipe version , Lt 925 peak power @11250 - this was 3 years ago and I would do it somewhat better now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2 Cone pipe 925.JPG 
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ID:	349830  
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  7. #35947
    Join Date
    20th June 2020 - 07:10
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    ETEC 800
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    Minnesota, USA
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    86
    Jeff, 11,000 is not out of the question for the 340 if you can somehow get enough blowdown. 10,600 rpm is typically what the highly developed champ 440s run at with 990-1025mm pipes. Not sure if that is because the CVT limitations orÂ…?
    When I dynod my 36% header pipes with the idea of delaying the diffusers pull on the bad transfer geometry which includes a bad A wall angle, shallow (less than 3 degree Angle headers) simply would not rev off its arse. Most all snowmobile pipes from vintage engines that I have measured from builders supposedly in the know have 29-31% headers. I have not tried anything that low in engmod or real life yet. Now that Wobbly mentions it, I will order some metal pronto and build the same pipe with a stubby header and same diffuser percentage.

    The tag is just a way for me to keep track of them. No business name or anything like that.

  8. #35948
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    TZ400
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    tAURANGA
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    I did several engine/pipe setups for winning Champ 440 engines many years ago , and yes 10500 rpm with a 1000 pipe.
    I do remember being told to keep it at 10500 but not why , most likely CVT tuning as you say Condyn.

    That was one of the first times I had used the 75% duct exit idea on a customer engine , and when I published the drawing of my pipe setup along
    with the reference Jaws pipe , and the dyno result , it created a huge stink.

    Even though my pipe made way better power , some people got their panties in a real knot because I had published their medeocre " IP ".
    They then swiftly said they now had a better design , but when I challenged them to "show me the money", nothing but silence errupted.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  9. #35949
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    20th June 2020 - 07:10
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    ETEC 800
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    Minnesota, USA
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    86
    Are you surprised? Americans are more likely to buy snake oil from a silver tonged devil salesman with a big name like RK TEK than to take a premium bone tossed in their direction. Modern 2t tech is hard to push on the dynomation crowd.

  10. #35950
    Join Date
    12th March 2010 - 16:56
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    TT500 F9 Kawasaki EFI
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    Hamilton New Zealand
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    2,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Condyn View Post
    Are you surprised? Americans are more likely to buy snake oil from a silver tonged devil salesman with a big name like RK TEK than to take a premium bone tossed in their direction. Modern 2t tech is hard to push on the dynomation crowd.
    Isn't that the truth..... RK with their potato chip head.

  11. #35951
    Join Date
    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    RZ496/Street 765RS/GasGas/ etc etc
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    Wellington. . ok the hutt
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    18,779
    Nah that's old tech, we need something new to sell. But what? Thinking.

    Got it! Concentric grooves!

    But which way?

    I know.

    Clockwise for the northern hemisphere and anti clockwise for southern. You know because. . .

    You machine some up and I'll start on the Farcebook page.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  12. #35952
    Join Date
    21st August 2014 - 13:28
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    2001, Honda, RS125
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    53
    But what if you live near the equator?

  13. #35953
    Join Date
    25th March 2004 - 17:22
    Bike
    RZ496/Street 765RS/GasGas/ etc etc
    Location
    Wellington. . ok the hutt
    Posts
    18,779
    Clearly you need a twin cylinder with one each way. . . . If you are heading East.

    Send your money to. .
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  14. #35954
    Join Date
    18th May 2007 - 20:23
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    RG50 and 76 Suzuki GP125 Buckets
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    Auckland
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    10,154
    .

    https://youtu.be/Xm6xxV6lFS8 somewhere in here is a Nitrous H2 Kawasaki.

    https://youtu.be/PSq33KMwZn8 Super Bowl of two stroke motorcycle drag racing.

    https://youtu.be/9XWKXNQqa-Q Kawasaki H2 750 of Bill Baxter and Alex “HRP” Hughes take on the wild nitrous oxide two stroke Kawasaki H2 750 of Jim Chongris.

    https://youtu.be/eRItqiCFuQE The fuel injected Kawasaki H2 750 of Bill Baxter's.


  15. #35955
    Join Date
    8th December 2014 - 14:39
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    1980 Suzuki Gs1100E
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    SWPA
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    photo and pipe diagram reply

    Wobbly
    Again thanks for the pic's and pipe diagram and for the % info. I see that the center pipe dim is way up at 130ish. I though the only way you could use that high of center area draw was if you had a very good scavenge setup. I think the engine I'm working on has only 120mm center to center bore distance with a 62mm bore. That doesn.t leave a whole lot of room for the inside transfer port duct curvature. I also can use a monobloc set of cylinders to help with the inside transfer duct curvature. What scavenging model do you use with a TZ350? I've been using Yamaha 14.

    Condyn
    Yes I agree with you, the blowdown is the big problem. I intend to resleeve and use a T-port exhaust. I think I can use a 4mm thick sleeve out of alum and nicasil it. I don't have much of an option. And yes I also believe the cvt is a problem. The factory uses clutches made out of magnesium, both front and back. And I have a race sheet from the factory that names what specs to use and in big bold letters say not to exceed 12500 rpm. I believe this is for the magnesium clutches. And It was signed. But I can't confirm it.

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