Lest we forget... New Zealand's shame

[Brett]

Why the f*uck was there NO ONE around to protect these children? I mean, they must have come into contact with at least DOZENS of poeple every week in the families etc who knew at the minimum, that something was not right.

I abhor these people and would like to see them hung up to rot. I feel that the jury should be able to voice in particular cases that they feel that the crime warrants the death penalty. that way, it is the feelings of 12 people that the person should die, not just a judge. Those two cocks who killed Nia, the dumb bitch of tortured Jynia etc are perfect examples.

[Mikkel]

All the child is wanting at that age is pure love and attention.,..

Parenting is not about giving kids what they want - but giving them what they need.

...and what kids need at that age is just a bit of salt to bring out the flavour.
Marinade isn't required until they've passed the age of 16.

Why the f*uck was there NO ONE around to protect these children? I mean, they must have come into contact with at least DOZENS of poeple every week in the families etc who knew at the minimum, that something was not right.

Because, unlike in physics where plus attracts negative and vice versa, in real life shit attracts shit. That is to say, anyone who commit these crimes are not likely to socialise with people having considerable ethical and moral fiber.

Jones and Smith are not the most common surnames on the list. Just an observation.

[short-circuit]

Jones and Smith are not the most common surnames on the list. Just an observation.

Care to elaborate?

[Hitcher]

Jones and Smith are not the most common surnames on the list. Just an observation.

Neither are Schwartz or Ng.

[Brian d marge]

I have personal knowledge of case 3 on the first post. The killer Mum was certainly not to blame. It was trial by media and the lynch her mob.

Good post

I am as giulty as the next man of trial by media and on saying that there is a ton of room here at my house for any little one who needs it ,,, Yup I could imagine cyps stuffing things up ,,, ...

Stephen

[Mikkel]

Neither are Schwartz or Ng.

No, but those are not common surnames in NZ.

However, if we consider what Mom said:

Neither are these all dark skinned either. I fostered children for many years, and without a doubt the worst cases of neglect and abuse came from what I can only term "white trash" homes.

Seeing no reason to doubt the validity of this statement in any way, I am merely wondering why this is not reflected in the list in the OP. I am not trying to make subtle race based suggestions of any kind - I'm merely curious why this is the case.

[MD]

No offence Winstone and I totally share your disgust at these vile people. but I am tired of being lumped together and expected to bear the shame and responsibility for the actions of a few total strangers. It's not New Zealand's shame. It's certainly not mine as a NZer.

I have no shame, I deserve no shame. So please can I post my unsolicitored guilt share allocation back. I'd rather hold my head up proud for being a good parent.

I wish the media hype-artists and the usual pack of Social Commentators would cease with this dumping collective guilt on us all i.e. the Campbell and Closeup drama queens. The only shame is on the offenders and those that could have safely intervened. Why should I be held 'responsible' for the actions, no matter how horrible, of scum who I have never met, most likely will never meet, and who I have never been in a position to influence or intervene on their actions.

I can feel bad about it, I can feel sad about it, I can feel disgusted about it, I can feel enraged about it - but not shamed.

[Hitcher]

No, but those are not common surnames in NZ.

Neither is it impossible to find "dark skinned" people with the surnames Smith or Jones.

[Genestho]

So your answer is what? Start up a thread/rant. That's constructive. I see it's been overtaken by racists and hysterical "cut their balls off" (sensible sentencing trust) types.


I use the site for bike related info/contacts etc. Sometimes I'm guilty of being curious enough to venture into corners of the site I shouldn't - like this one.


Why don't you stick to talkback back for this shit.

"SST types" are the ones getting off their arses whilst grieving the deaths of loved ones and gettin things changed for "you and yours"..because we have not been protected from those who cannot and will be reposnsible for themselves..
Get educated, sensible sentencing is very misjudged, they are families affected by violent murders and road crime, who dont want balls chopped, they are not capital punishment advocators in secret, they dont have fires and pitch forks..
They want fair and sensible sentences, only they know what it feels like to have a loved one murdered, and then feel let down by the "Justice" system..
If you dont like what ya read, go back to what you prefer! Keep your uneducated thoughts to yourself

[Mikkel]

Neither is it impossible to find "dark skinned" people with the surnames Smith or Jones.

And you suggest this would make their absence on afore mentioned list less curious?

[Mom]

Seeing no reason to doubt the validity of this statement in any way, I am merely wondering why this is not reflected in the list in the OP. I am not trying to make subtle race based suggestions of any kind - I'm merely curious why this is the case.

I once took in 3 kids whos mother had tried to kill them by gassing them in her car in the garage. She had Christopher Harder as her lawyer. It was reported on radio at the time it happened, then disappeared altogether.

He got the charges reduced from attempted murder to intentionally stupifying her children, she got a 12 month suspended sentence.

The reason you dont see white folks shame widely reported is they either have good lawyers, or it is not "sensational" enough to be reported in the press. We all know the darkies are a bad lot after all.

[Winston001]

I have personal knowledge of case 3 on the first post. The killer Mum was certainly not to blame. It was trial by media and the lynch her mob.......

Two decades ago the child would have been placed in long term fostering. Politial correctness and "cultural safety" agendas stopped such high levels of intervention. Its all about self determination. We don't need paternalism said the academics, on behalf of those of other cultures and of those with mental health issues - let us look after our own issues. The State must answer for too often wiping its hands.

Thanks for posting, its good to hear the fuller story.

I can't go along with you about CYPS however. They are a government department staffed by people who have chosen one of the most heartrending occupations possible. CYPS are never right in some peoples eyes.

For centuries society accepted taking children away from bad/incompetant/sick parents. Look at the Stolen Generation debate, and the children shipped from England to Australia etc.

15 years ago child psychology research showed that the first and best place for a child was with its family, even when the adults were damaged. So that became the default position, which is what you describe. Added to that was the recognition that a child's culture could only be preserved by them remaining among that culture.

Which brings us to the unhappy position CYPS are in today. To take a child away from their family, there has to be a very high risk. And there aren't a lot of places for the children to go anyway. So it becomes rather academic. The child remains and the family are watched.............in theory.

Personally I think CYPS should remove children immediately and work out whether the family can be trusted later. That's the price you pay if you want to raise children in our society - or go elsewhere.

Rant over - off to the Burt Munro Rally now, glorious day here.

[Mikkel]

I once took in 3 kids whos mother had tried to kill them by gassing them in her car in the garage. She had Christopher Harder as her lawyer. It was reported on radio at the time it happened, then disappeared altogether.

He got the charges reduced from attempted murder to intentionally stupifying her children, she got a 12 month suspended sentence.

The mind boggles...

The reason you dont see white folks shame widely reported is they either have good lawyers, or it is not "sensational" enough to be reported in the press. We all know the darkies are a bad lot after all.

I wouldn't have thought that it would be less sensational just because a whitey was behind the atrocity. What would the reasoning behind such skewed press coverage be?

[short-circuit]

"SST types" are the ones getting off their arses whilst grieving the deaths of loved ones and gettin things changed for "you and yours"..because we have not been protected from those who cannot and will be reposnsible for themselves..
Get educated, sensible sentencing is very misjudged, they are families affected by violent murders and road crime, who dont want balls chopped, they are not capital punishment advocators in secret, they dont have fires and pitch forks..
They want fair and sensible sentences, only they know what it feels like to have a loved one murdered, and then feel let down by the "Justice" system..
If you dont like what ya read, go back to what you prefer! Keep your uneducated thoughts to yourself

Emotive and hysterical responses are understandable (and valid) but will not lead to constructive solutions. Lets not pretend that calls for even more punitive measures are a solution - they are purely about revenge. Forums such as this one do nothing to "educate" - among the few genuine expressions of sadness, compassion and anger I see mainly hatred, bile, racism, stereotyping and straight out misinformation.


Please don't try to imply that the SST are trying to do something for "me and mine"...they are not, and if they are they are very misguided in terms of both their method and their objective. Like all groups and individuals their agendas are varied.

[short-circuit]

The reason you dont see white folks shame widely reported is they either have good lawyers, or it is not "sensational" enough to be reported in the press.

Thank you.

Guess what? These crimes in Scotland (for example) in the middle of last century were all committed by people who had names like "Logan", "Anderson" and "Douglas".

Populations of prison inmates all over the world are characterised by people on the wrong side of social indicators. Funny how in colonial countries they tend to be aboriginal or non european and all prison populations tend to be full of poor and working class people

How about looking at relationships between ethnicity and other socio-economic indicators: education, poverty, substance dependency and so on. Oh no, actually, don't do that cause then we might have to ask ourselves some more challenging questions as a society.