First Races

[FROSTY:Me]

In my opinion the 600 is a bike best ridden using the classic slow in fast out method.
I disagree that the peg digging in is an issue -Ive suggested several times shifting weight to the inside of the corner to keep the bke more upright. That in itself at this stage would be enough to create more ground clearance.
Raising the pegs in YOUR case I think may be detrimental in that it will make the riding position more cramped. -but then its only a matter of 2 chunks of ally I guess

[dpex]

A few more facts would be helpful. 1 Tyre pressures?
2)at what point in the race did it happen?
3) what did that side of the tyre look like after the race? -was it smooth n shiney -any sighn of oil residue? was it very chewed up?

My first thoought was its rough handling on your part
Followed by a concern with mixing a hot track with a nice road orientated tyre might have greased it up for you.
were you getting chattering in the rear wheel before this happened--pointing to over damping.

Answers in sequence.

Handling didn't feel rough. I felt my usual comfort level into a corner. As mentioned in another answer, I thought I was going quite slowly compared with previous runs through the corner.

Didn't look at the tyre. Was too busy looking for scratches on my lovely Yami.

According to sundry 'experts' my Pilot Powers as as good a track tyre as I'm likely to get (within my budget) so I don't really understand your posit.

No chattering. The bike just laid down like it had had enough of my Tom-Fool handling and was teaching me a lesson.

I do have to say that after Andy adjusted the recoil on the rear shock the bike felt waaaaay better. To the point that had I not completely screwed up my gear selection on the last left sweeper to the finish, I would have finished 8th.

Ho hum. So much to learn. And what a buzzy learning trip. :--))

BTW: Frosty. The only damage wasa slightly munted gear-shift (unmunted with a spanner) and a rather nasty looking scratch on 'Madame's' rear fairing. And, of course, the left crash bung is one-third shorter.

Damned clever things those crash-bungs.

[dpex]

In my opinion the 600 is a bike best ridden using the classic slow in fast out method.
I disagree that the peg digging in is an issue -Ive suggested several times shifting weight to the inside of the corner to keep the bke more upright. That in itself at this stage would be enough to create more ground clearance.
Raising the pegs in YOUR case I think may be detrimental in that it will make the riding position more cramped. -but then its only a matter of 2 chunks of ally I guess

I understand what you're on about, but I figure I can get a set of racing/track-day pegs. Andy's posit makes sense to me. If the peg is taking even 'some' of the weight, when you're right out there on the edge, then that 'could' contribute to lessening the weight on the rear tyre.

As for weight-shifting. Yeah. I figure I have to learn how to do that. I will. Just a matter of practice.

[dpex]

Brake later and harder, accelerate earlier and harder, and hang off the bike more to get better corner speed without having to lean it over so far.



Didn't realise you were there on Sunday or I would've found you and said hello.

Edit: Actually, don't necessarily brake later and harder. Keith Code puts it well with his idea of a 'corner product' - you should be riding to achieve a particular outcome in terms of what the bike does out of the corner. If you can find a better exit speed by going easier on the brakes and tipping in with more settled suspension, do so. It might give you faster lap times than late braking. You'll never know until you start practicing and timing.

Two things. Yeah, it would have been great to meet you.

I guess it's fair to assert that no amount of theory supplants action.

I just have to keep doing it, J. I think my greatest asset is, I'm a persistent little bastard.And i don't scare easily. :--)))

And i just have to keep reading Twist Of The Wrist.

BTW: For al those who would like a copy, I now have it as a PDF file.

Happy to post it to any and all requesters.

[jrandom]

With the weight shifting, don't worry too much about moving your arse about at first, just lead with your shoulder and kiss your mirrors. Like, really swing your upper body over. Your shoulder and/or elbow should be the first thing that goes round the corner, etc.

[dpex]

Heres one of you on the bike Not good shots i know but its proof you were there

I just noticed something in your photos. Do you see how two of the SM's haven't got their headlights taped?

I'm flabbergasted. In fact my flaber has never been so gasted. What about the rules!!!?

Yay. In 2008, some-two broke the RULES and got away with it. There's hope for mankind yet.

[dpex]

With the weight shifting, don't worry too much about moving your arse about at first, just lead with your shoulder and kiss your mirrors. Like, really swing your upper body over. Your shoulder and/or elbow should be the first thing that goes round the corner, etc.

Yeah J. I think you're right. That's what came out of a vid posted somewhere on this site. It was from one of those Californian super-bike training sessions. The guy made pure sense.

I sucked it in. Sadly, I have yet to do it properly. But I will. At least, I ''will" within my skill level, and get better as that improves.

Hell's teeth. But it just HAS to improve. :--(((

But man, there is so much going on is such a short period of time.

I guess that if we'd been just Clubmans, then I'd had some more time to think, but with these amazingly mad fucks (don't ya just love them) on their super motards, lapping me every 3rd minute, most of my time was spent thinking about the next bracket of SM's coming hoving by.

But shit it was good. :--))

What a buzz.

[FROSTY:Me]

With the weight shifting, don't worry too much about moving your arse about at first, just lead with your shoulder and kiss your mirrors. Like, really swing your upper body over. Your shoulder and/or elbow should be the first thing that goes round the corner, etc.

I disagrre in THIS case. This man needs to shift his arse to the inside of the corner by about 150mm to start with

[jrandom]

I disagrre in THIS case. This man needs to shift his arse to the inside of the corner by about 150mm to start with

Well, I haven't actually watched him ride, so, y'know. Whatever you say.

[BIGBOSSMAN]

Oops, I couldn't help myself. At least I didn't capture you on 'the way down', so to speak.
You lost the rear end, possibly exacerbated (good word) by your LH peg touching down I think.
You were going fine mate apart from your little moment!

[CHOPPA]

From looking at the other picture body position could of helped...

[dpex]

Having had more time to run the memory card in concert with the above comments...I remember thinking I was quite slow into the corner.

I'm wondering if what actually happened was; I was just too slow for the lean angle and ran out of centrifugal support.

Any comments?

[kiwifruit]

Just have fun, man. Try not to over analyse everything. Relax.

[Sully60]

BBM's picture

One piece of advise I will give you based what I can see in this picture.

IF IT'S A SAFE PLACE TO PICK YOUR BIKE UP

Bend your knees and lift with your legs when picking up your bike. When you've had a minor off it's best just to slow down and take your time getting restarted, you already lost a heap of time so a few more seconds won't hurt your result any more.

If you're serious about this racing thing you may have to do this at least a few more times and racing with a fucked back isn't very enjoyable and does nothing to help with working on your body position.

[Sully60]

My first thought was its rough handling on your part

Swot struck me too, actually. It's not just speed that uses up traction hey, it's a lack of smoothness - you can go real fast round a corner if you're not changing anything midway, but an overly tense rider or any slightly choppy control inputs and it's all over rover!

Gotta go slow before you can go fast... I'm still working on the first bit.

DISCLAMER:As I wasn't there or have seen you ride this post is based entirely on what I've read in this thread and some personal experience, its; yours to take from what you will. It is also based on all factors being equal, I'm not going into tyre pressures, suspension ground clearance, track conditions etc.

Both of you may have a good point here, though 'rough handling' is a rather hard thing to pinpoint. If as you say you were leaned over carrying a neutral throttle setting you'd have to do something pretty rough to fall over(like let go of the bars, jump off or suddenly decide that John Hopkins can get to 62 degrees lean so why can't I!)
As Jrandom said you can actually go pretty fast just sitting relaxed on the bike being smooth.



Here's just something I've seen in the past that may help you.

I've seen it before when relatively quick road riders make it to the track for the first time they really attack the corners, brake late in and accelerate hard out blah, blah, but what most don't do is get the bike turned enough in between. The consequence from this, the rider arrives at the exit of the corner with the bike pointed at the outside of the turn with no way to make it around carrying their current throttle percentage/lean angle.

The rider now has two options, bottle out, chop the throttle and lose all the drive they got from being on the gas early or they bottle up and go for more lean angle to make the turn. The second option could work for you eight or nine times out of ten and you'd definitely get the impression that your rear tyre is working right up to the eighth or ninth time when you realise that you're now sliding on your arse following the bike down the track or you've just suddenly gained six feet in altitude and are watching you're bike disintegrate from up there and hoping for a soft landing yourself(fat chance)

So as Mr Random said the slow down to go fast thing is best way at the beginning. Accuracy is more important at this stage and speed comes from that. Getting the bike to the apex of the turn and heading in the right direction is the key here, corner exits will come a lot easier from a well sorted entry.

Just a little thing I've told people, it's a bit simplistic but please don't feel patronised.

If you are opening the throttle(accelerating) you must be picking the bike up, if you need more lean, hold constant throttle or roll off slightly. Like I said this is very simplistic but you should see a dramatic decrease rear end lowsides if you stick with this.

As I said this could all be wrong for you but I hope you can take something from it.