Terrorist (namely muslim) cowards

[Oscar]

Yup, Baghdad, Germany and Japan were all bombed without provocatation. You forget Pearl Harbour, ect?

Since you mentioned it, no I didn't forget Pearl Habour.
However, the Japs went after military targets on Dec 7th 1941.

By 1945, it was official US Air Force policy to fire bomb Japanese Cities in an attempt to force a surrender (not to mention US & RAF bombing of Dresden & Cologne). Why is this any different from a terrorist bombing a hotel?

Ps. It appears that Baghdad WAS bombed without provocation - they never did find those WMD's, did they?

[SARGE]

What gives us the moral right to condemn terrorists when we did not hesitate to fire bomb German and Japanese cities? How many civilians died as a result of the bombing of Baghdad by Coalition Forces?

right.. you may have read in a recent post of mine abut Concrete filled Ammo cans?/.. we could knock out a house between a Mosque, a school ,and a retirement home and never get a splinter on an adjacent property .. the pig splattered like a water balloon...opend a hole though...


we trained every day in kill houses to maximize enemy casualties and AVOID collateral damage.. might get a few bruises or minor burns but they have dinner that night..

yea.. the Allies hit cities in previous conflicts.. so did the the Greeks..the Trojans..Huns, the Romans, the Saxons, the Germans targeted London with missiles.. .. Hussein targeted the Kurds with Mustard gas and etc..


but at least they didnt hide in the crowd..when gunfire comes from a crowd,,, hard to keep from chucking a few belts of ammo into it..

if you have never experienced combat..you can never really understand it,, ask anyone who has ever had a hot deployment.. in war there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is not easy, and if you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Rainbows End .......

yea ..civillians die..thats War.. most in this conflict from the fact that some scumbag is loosing AK rounds from a crowd into a Marine Column... some get in the wrong place at the wrong time but i dont believe that any civilized nation target civilians..

[wbks]

thats deep

[MisterD]

(not to mention US & RAF bombing of Dresden & Cologne). Why is this any different from a terrorist bombing a hotel?

Quite simply because they started it. Sowing the wind, reaping the whirlwind and all that. I'm with Sarge 100%, both sides should play by the rules - let's try using thier rule book for a while...

Ps. It appears that Baghdad WAS bombed without provocation - they never did find those WMD's, did they?

A personal application of Occam's razor leads me to believe that Saddam wanted Bush and Blair to believe he had WMD's mistakenly thinking that would deter an invasion. It's far more plausible that the standard oil-based conspiracy theory.

[Oscar]

right.. you may have read in a recent post of mine abut Concrete filled Ammo cans?/.. we could knock out a house between a Mosque, a school ,and a retirement home and never get a splinter on an adjacent property .. the pig splattered like a water balloon...opend a hole though...


we trained every day in kill houses to maximize enemy casualties and AVOID collateral damage.. might get a few bruises or minor burns but they have dinner that night..

yea.. the Allies hit cities in previous conflicts.. so did the the Greeks..the Trojans..Huns, the Romans, the Saxons, the Germans targeted London with missiles.. .. Hussein targeted the Kurds with Mustard gas and etc..


but at least they didnt hide in the crowd..when gunfire comes from a crowd,,, hard to keep from chucking a few belts of ammo into it..

if you have never experienced combat..you can never really understand it,, ask anyone who has ever had a hot deployment.. in war there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is not easy, and if you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Rainbows End .......

yea ..civillians die..thats War.. most in this conflict from the fact that some scumbag is loosing AK rounds from a crowd into a Marine Column... some get in the wrong place at the wrong time but i dont believe that any civilized nation target civilians..

Look, I think in person you and I would get on like a house on fire, and I don't wanna labour the point.

There is no moral high ground here.
We (the West) are reaping what we sowed.


Not only that, we've somehow got to the point where we think war is a PG show for TV, and that anyone not playing to the rules are barbarians. But if you're desperate, angry and badly led, with small arms and Koran as weapons, how do you counter 21st Century Army? You drag them back to the 12th Century.

The fact is, the other side have had enough of our rules, are desperate, and will make their own rules to win.

[Mikkel]

nakked chicks.. space aliens..oh.. and the Judean Peoples Front

Don't forget the People's Front of Judea! ...and the literate Romans.

yea ..civillians die..thats War.. most in this conflict from the fact that some scumbag is loosing AK rounds from a crowd into a Marine Column... some get in the wrong place at the wrong time but i dont believe that any civilized nation target civilians..

Hiroshima?
Nagasaki?
Well, they must have held perceived strategical importance since they made the Japanese surrender.

I'm with you in that war is hell - so let's not fool ourselves into thinking that the Geneva Convention is blindly being followed by all "civilised" nations.

[Oscar]

Quite simply because they started it. Sowing the wind, reaping the whirlwind and all that. I'm with Sarge 100%, both sides should play by the rules - let's try using thier rule book for a while...

Quite so.
I've never had a problem with that.
It's just that if one side gets to say when they'll use the rule book, what's the point of having one?

A personal application of Occam's razor leads me to believe that Saddam wanted Bush and Blair to believe he had WMD's mistakenly thinking that would deter an invasion. It's far more plausible that the standard oil-based conspiracy theory.

That sounds logical.
But it also applies to Bush & Blair - they wanted to believe in WMD's so bad they were happy to accept the smallest bit of evidence, however dodgy.

[Mikkel]

That sounds logical.
But it also applies to Bush & Blair - they wanted to believe in WMD's so bad they were happy to accept the smallest bit of evidence, however dodgy.

What evidence? Didn't you just say there wasn't any?

But yes, you are completely right.

[Oscar]

What evidence? Didn't you just say there wasn't any?

But yes, you are completely right.

You jump to conclusions, Grasshopper.

I didn't say there weren't any - I said they didn't find any...

[Sniper]

Yep, agreed. I withdraw and apologise. There is no defending what they did.

No need to apologise dude, we all make mistakes

[SARGE]

Not only that, we've somehow got to the point where we think war is a PG show for TV, and that anyone not playing to the rules are barbarians. But if you're desperate, angry and badly led, with small arms and Koran as weapons, how do you counter 21st Century Army? You drag them back to the 12th Century.

The fact is, the other side have had enough of our rules, are desperate, and will make their own rules to win.

not sure how the Kiwi Military trains.. but we were trained to " improvise, adapt, and overcome.. i never entered a building the same way.. we would blow a hole in the ROOF and flush top-down.. through a back wall.. 2 flash bangs through a window and snipers on the roofs.. 250 MPH pig through a door..if you become predictable you become dead..

we are fighting more of a shadow war than a traditional war, The terrorists use asymmetrical warfare tactics due to the overwhelming superiority of our military. they choose to engage in a battle to undermine the confidence of the nation by attempting to demonstrate our inability to protect our citizens in their every day lives...thems the rules.. i say we get us a copy of the playbook and start playing by THIER book..

oh wait.. the hippies would howl like banshees

[98tls]

Since you mentioned it, no I didn't forget Pearl Habour.
However, the Japs went after military targets on Dec 7th 1941.

By 1945, it was official US Air Force policy to fire bomb Japanese Cities in an attempt to force a surrender (not to mention US & RAF bombing of Dresden & Cologne). Why is this any different from a terrorist bombing a hotel?

Ps. It appears that Baghdad WAS bombed without provocation - they never did find those WMD's, did they?

Fwiw,the national archives in Washington contains US government documents that chart Japanese peace overtures as early as 43,none was pursued.A cable sent on May 5th 45 by the German ambassador in Tokyo and intercepted by the US dipels any doubt the Japanese were desperate to sue for peace even if the terms were hard.The day after the bomb was dropped President Truman expressed his satisfaction with the overwhelming success of the experiment.At one stage US secretary of war Stimson expressed his fears that Japanese cities would be so bombed out that his new weapon wouldnt be able to show its strength.Lets face it by the time the bomb was dropped Japan was not Americas worry though it did serve a purpose in that they could demonstrate there new weapon to there real enemy.

[SARGE]

Hiroshima?
Nagasaki?
Well, they must have held perceived strategical importance since they made the Japanese surrender.

from Wikipedia

Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focusing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target."

The city of Nagasaki had been one of the largest sea ports in southern Japan and was of great wartime importance because of its wide-ranging industrial activity, including the production of ordnance, ships, military equipment, and other war materials.

cities with heavy military presence.... yea.. civilians died.. sorry..war is hell

[Swoop]

250 MPH pig through a door..if you become predictable you become dead..

I would have loved to have seen the look on Achmed's face that day...
"Hey Yusef, look! A flying pig!"
"Have you been sniffing the camel dung again Achmed?"

In other terrorist news today: Strathclyde Police have named one of the Glasgow Airport terror suspects as: "Sinje Majeep" who was apparently celebrating the lesser known Muslim festival of Ramavan.

[SARGE]

I would have loved to have seen the look on Achmed's face that day...
"Hey Yusef, look! A flying pig!"
"Have you been sniffing the camel dung again Achmed?"

3 problems.. one solution!!!


1) how do we open that door?

2) how do we demoralize the enemy?

3) whats for dinner?