Pursuit Policy

**mikey** · 10th February 2005, 16:40

Originally Posted by StoneChucker

Also, if someone doing a runner wipes themself out, there's less chance (no chance actually) of them wiping ME out in the future... Am I heartless for thinking that way?

No you would just be taking a punt that they do not wipe you an your shiny r1 out then an there! or hichers or his wife or both, or frostys kid, or dare i say it rid the evil of white trash himself.

but after he has done that an possibly taken someone with them you will be fine... assuming there willl never be any more nutters on the road... which isextremely unlikely

**marty** · 10th February 2005, 16:48

Originally Posted by madboy

In another thread you've probably come across this link http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3182837a11,00.html where the dumb f*** with no helmet did a runner and ended up dead - suicide I reckon. But the bottom of the story contains this bit of information which may or may not have been brought to anyones attention before:

New police policy states that:
Public and staff safety takes priority over immediate apprehension of a suspect.
Officers must decide if a pursuit can be justified and work with their shift supervisor to re-evaluate the safety risk throughout the pursuit. Supervisors at police communications centres have authority to order that a pursuit be abandoned.
When abandoning chase, officers must immediately turn off lights and sirens, reduce speed to within the limit, then stop on the roadside. All police cars involved must stop.

All of which goes against everything I've ever experienced over the years, so I'm hoping that being a new policy fresh in the mind of the troops some of them might actually pay attention to it.

Now come on - abuse me for being irresponsible. I'm just making sure those who have an interest in this area are aware of it. Those that don't, don't contribute.

that has been policy for years now - i remember being rapped over the knuckles for it in 1999. it basically came about when the comms centres centralised. it's just getting more public airtime now.

**R1** · 10th February 2005, 16:53

Originally Posted by mikey

No you would just be taking a ount that they do not wipe you an your shiny r1 out then an there! or thichers wife, ofrostys kid, or dar ei say it rid the evil of white trash himself.

but after he has done that an possible taken someone with them you will be fine... unti lthe next nutter comes along//......

Ya tryin real hard for the red uns aint ya lil fella, nice green one commin u'r way.

**spudchucka** · 10th February 2005, 20:09

Originally Posted by Skunk

As this comes from a newspaper I would give it very little weight.
Also "reduce speed to within the limit, then stop on the roadside. All police cars involved must stop." would be worded "All police cars involved must stop at the roadside." as "reduce speed to within the limit, then" is superfluous.

My 5 cents. Cough up.

Its basically correct. Under the new policy implimented last year when pursuit is abandoned the pursuing vehicle must:
1: Reduce speed to within the current posted speed limit.
2: Once speed is within the prescribed speed limit, deactivate lights and sirens.
3: Come to a complete stop.
4: Once stopped report your position to police comms.

All vehicles involved must comply with these requirements when abandonment is ordered.

**mikey** · 10th February 2005, 20:19

and the sly fucker cops that still have the natural instincts of a chase with adrenaline pumping through are going to do this... more like turn off sirens and keep following, which i am sure has been brought up in other threads but for fucks sake spud

your like a spottie

when ever i used to go fishing at the wharf i would throw a line in with little worm or something an every time a spotty would latch on
repeat about 20 times until no worms were left and there was a days fun, now some body (me at times) is doing some fishing an you are the DUMB spotty

if your so mature why dont you ignore it!

ass hole power tripping fuck wit who would of never got by in the real world because he would of got bullied, needs a badge behind him....

try not responding to that one... show some maturity ya PIG

**madboy** · 10th February 2005, 20:38

mikey, you're beggin for red reps, aren't ya? just offer a cash reward and we can help out...

the point i was hinting at was the interesting interpretation the pursuing officers have of the policy, and the reporting of it back to comms. Hell, they wanna chase, good on 'em. I break the law, I expect to pay the price when caught. I bin it or kill someone in the process, I friggin deserve everything coming my way - I'm not trying to dodge that bullet.

I've shot past plenty of cops who've looked, waved their finger and shaken their head... and then continued on their way. But of the ones who pulled the u-turn, not a single one of them ever gave up until I either lost them or they caught me... 9/10 the former.

I'm not trying to take a crack at the whole morality issue around runners, nor taking a swipe at the poor bastard cops I give this moral dilemma to... i choose to break the rules and I admit that. What i'm saying is if there's a rule there and the police choose to break it, then they should take the consequences too. They get away with breaking the rules, good on em. But when they kill someone in the process of a pursuit, they've lied to comms, they've continued when told to abandon... well...

By the way, that dude in chch - darwin had the last laugh - I have no ill-feeling at all toward the police involved in that based on the information I've seen to date.

**spudchucka** · 10th February 2005, 20:45

Originally Posted by mikey

and the sly fucker cops that still have the natural instincts of a chase with adrenaline pumping through are going to do this... more like turn off sirens and keep following, which i am sure has been brought up in other threads but for fucks sake spud

You're sure of a lot of things Mikey but correct about very few of them. Why do you think they have to stop and report their position over the radio? Because then the despatcher can actually tell that they have stopped.

Originally Posted by mikey

your like a spottie

No thanks, I don't like spottie???

Originally Posted by mikey

when ever i used to go fishing at the wharf i would throw a line in with little worm or something an every time a spotty would latch on
repeat about 20 times until no worms were left and there was a days fun, now some body (me at times) is doing some fishing an you are the DUMB spotty

Remind me again where exactly I have replied to one of your posts in this thread, (prior to this one of course). You haven't quite mastered the art of trolling yet sunshine, you better practice some more.

Originally Posted by mikey

if your so mature why dont you ignore it!

Am I mature? Have I said I'm mature? I'm nearly middle aged if that counts??

Originally Posted by mikey

ass hole power tripping fuck wit who would of never got by in the real world because he would of got bullied, needs a badge behind him....

try not responding to that one... show some maturity ya PIG

Mikey, you have yet to find the real world, let alone get by in it.

**madboy** · 10th February 2005, 20:49

Originally Posted by spudchucka

Its basically correct.... All vehicles involved must comply with these requirements when abandonment is ordered.

Spud - if the pursuing vehicle loses sight of the offender, what's the deal there?

Reason I ask is that in a hypothetical situation where a bike did a runner, and just happened to triple the speed limit rather rapidly increasing the distance from 150m line of sight to one corner and 400m in a few seconds, then disappeared around a few more corners, into a side street and another and another and just happened to be parked in their back yard ignition/helmet off asking their partner if they happened to have the scanner on and did they mention anything about a rego?? and about 10 sec later sirens and severly strained Commo S motor are heard rapidly appearing then disappearing down parallel street...

In this hypothetical situation it would appear that the unit was giving it a good go even though it lost sight of the bike at least 30 sec beforehand and quite frankly with the amount of side streets the only hope was a binned bike...

Would it be reasonable that the pursuit was continued in that situation?

**spudchucka** · 10th February 2005, 20:56

Originally Posted by madboy

Spud - if the pursuing vehicle loses sight of the offender, what's the deal there?

Reason I ask is that in a hypothetical situation where a bike did a runner, and just happened to triple the speed limit rather rapidly increasing the distance from 150m line of sight to one corner and 400m in a few seconds, then disappeared around a few more corners, into a side street and another and another and just happened to be parked in their back yard ignition/helmet off asking their partner if they happened to have the scanner on and did they mention anything about a rego?? and about 10 sec later sirens and severly strained Commo S motor are heard rapidly appearing then disappearing down parallel street...

In this hypothetical situation it would appear that the unit was giving it a good go even though it lost sight of the bike at least 30 sec beforehand and quite frankly with the amount of side streets the only hope was a binned bike...

Would it be reasonable that the pursuit was continued in that situation?

I'd still be willing to let my intuition lead me for a while but I'd definitely back off the speed. By the time they are that well out of sight you are better off to try and position other units into positions that may intercept the vehicle.

**madboy** · 10th February 2005, 21:06

Originally Posted by spudchucka

I'd still be willing to let my intuition lead me for a while but I'd definitely back off the speed. By the time they are that well out of sight you are better off to try and position other units into positions that may intercept the vehicle.

Unfornately for the general duties unit in this hypothetical situation there was only delta and the sargeant in the area... and happened to be a bit further up the road than the bikers garage.

In another hypothetical situation a few years before involving a high-powered Jap boyracer car vs a soon to be replaced Commo wagon with an acting sergeant driving... your exact scenario came into play... bloody wainui unit blocked the south escape routes, and three other units were on their way back from a job up north, said jappa was going way too fast to stop and enter home address without having brake lights on for too long and giving away position... just had to take that one like a man. Which wasn't a bad idea cos the acting sarg was known to the offender and was a nice enough guy and in this hypothetical scenario only charged them with failing to stop. Court costs plus fine were actually cheaper than the ticket for the original speed jappa was doing would have been!

**marty** · 10th February 2005, 21:11

and that, madboy, is the exact truth

**madboy** · 10th February 2005, 21:16

Originally Posted by marty

and that, madboy, is the exact truth

you mean by stopping being a good idea?

**Biff** · 10th February 2005, 21:49

The pursuit guidelines sound spot on to me.

Any pursuit is dangerous, but the police officers that are allowed to take part in a high speed pursuit MUST be trained to the highest possible level, in order to ensure that the risk of the pursuit is de-risked as much as possible. Quite frankly I'm amazed to hear that pursuits are routinely conducted by police officers that haven't been trained to specifically take part in high speed pursuits. Am I wrong? Spud?

How about a nice new helicopter or two, paid for out of the revenue generated by speed tickets? There's huge evidence back in the good ole UK, that once crims knew there was a risk of being chased by a helicopter the vast majority choose not to run. Simple? This country sure as shit could do with some more 'air rescue' services as well.

So now you're left with the guy or gal that does the runner. If they crash - tough shit. They choose to run. They know the risks. If they kill or injur someone while attempting to run, big time prison time I reckon, with hard years being a bitch for a realy nasty, violent, if not slightly gay psychopath nicknamed 'Sasquatch' that likes to be called 'Stud Muffin' while you chew pillows.

Any cop that continues to pursue any vehicle after being told to discontinue with the pursuit by a senior officer, should have their arses kicked big time. Throw the book at the buggers. But saying that, I can imagine a scenario when some dick keeps getting chased by the same cop time and time again. Then it gets personal, maybe the adrenaline rush experienced by the pursuing officer is stronger than normal? It's in times like this that I could imagine the selective deafness of the police officer kicking in, missing important radio messages or suddenly hitting a radio black spot. Where their radio just 'so happened' to miss a key message because their too caught up in 'getting the bastard'.

Because we all know that these cop types are mostly human.

**madboy** · 10th February 2005, 22:18

Originally Posted by Biff Baff

It's in times like this that I could imagine the selective deafness of the police officer kicking in, missing important radio messages or suddenly hitting a radio black spot. Where their radio just 'so happened' to miss a key message because their too caught up in 'getting the bastard'.

Because we all know that these cops types are mostly human.

I recall hearing a pursuit on the scanner last year - only a stolen telstar vs I assume a commo, but they were calling in the speeds, conditions, locations etc as part of normal practice. And I'm sitting there thinking, oh that's nice, they're passing XXX street... doing 70-80k... then XXX street... still doing 80k max...

and as I'm listening I'm thinking that this particular road is a dead friggin straight road with no lights/cross roads, only side streets. as they're calling in the side streets i'm thinking that the distances covered vs the speed at which they're covering those distances don't quite add up... i think someone might have been telling porkies (no pun intended)

as for helicoptors - hell if they had them in wgtn I'd be rethinking my own pursuit policy! bit like a dog handler - I'd be thinking real hard about doing a runner on foot once they turned up... helicoptor same deal. you only fight the battles you can win.