Fell into the trap

[tri boy]

The suspension tuners bible quotes the following:

"Riders will ALWAYS wind their compression and rebound clickers IN"
This is due mainly because of ego. ie, "I'm a great rider, very fast, and need a firm suspension setting".
Thus they very rarely back suspension off, and after several adjustments over a period of weeks, the bike takes on that wooden, buckboard characteristic.

Fast forward to my evening ride yesterday on the Daytona, that RT had set both the Ohlin's shock, and Race Tech front up on about a year ago.

Wasn't happy with the front or rear, so tonight I went back to his original base settings, and checked where they had ended up.
Yup, all setting bar the rear spring had become firmer.

Do yourself a favour, and recheck your settings. It will be interesting to see how many have actually softened the comp, and rebound.

[Pixie]

Allow me to rewrite the "bible" for the modern world:

"Riders will ALWAYS wind their compression and rebound clickers IN"
This is due mainly because they know Jack Shit about suspension.
Thus they very rarely back suspension off, and after several adjustments over a period of weeks, the bike takes on that wooden, buckboard characteristic.

...where's Robert T?

[tri boy]

Even the best racers, and experienced mechanics seem to fall into this trap occasionally. I don't think it's because they don't know what they're doing, more like one of natures little mysteries. (like bread always hitting the floor butter side down.
Fess up. You have all been guilty of this.

[yod]

i haven't

i never touch it

i know i dont know jack about it

[AllanB]

Ha funny stuff. I made progressively firmer adjustments to my new Hornet over a few thousand kms, (I settled on the firmer ride for higher speed sweepers).

Then I hurt my lower back.

I wound off the rebound etc to soften it up making the ride more comfortable while my back improved.

Not only did my back improve so did the bikes handling on this slightly softer setting. Sweet.

[Robert Taylor]

Allow me to rewrite the "bible" for the modern world:

"Riders will ALWAYS wind their compression and rebound clickers IN"
This is due mainly because they know Jack Shit about suspension.
Thus they very rarely back suspension off, and after several adjustments over a period of weeks, the bike takes on that wooden, buckboard characteristic.

...where's Robert T?

The setting range where bypass bleed ( that what clickers do! )works best is a lot narrower than people realise. The phrase ''fully adjustable'' should be firmly expunged. Too far in often leads to cavitation because there is then inadequate pressure balance. If the clickers end up verging towards extremities then thats indicative that revalving is required. This is often met with denial.

[MSTRS:Me]

......... This is often met with denial.

Never.
sorry - couldn't help myself

[PirateJafa]

A that my crew used to use a lot when sailing was "When in doubt, let it out".

Applicable to more situations than we'd thought, it would seem.

[JD Racing]

The setting range where bypass bleed ( that what clickers do! )works best is a lot narrower than people realise. The phrase ''fully adjustable'' should be firmly expunged. Too far in often leads to cavitation because there is then inadequate pressure balance. If the clickers end up verging towards extremities then thats indicative that revalving is required. This is often met with denial.

Your not wrong there Robert, time and time again I see journalists saying how good modern suspension is, I'd like to know what they are basing this on, if it was that good we'd both be out of work.
The problem is when people get that pissed of with a poor ride that they want it sorting out they think they can just come in, have their knobs fiddled with and ride off. They've been led to believe that's all they need, it comes as a bit of a shock when they find out the problems are more fundamental than that.

[hayd3n]

soo in or out?

[warewolf]

Yep, guilty as charged.

Around about the time RT was writing (or at least, when I was reading it) "people often use too much rebound damping, on return it should overshoot, just, once. A click or two softer than 'feels right'"... paraphrasing, or words to that effect [RT can correct me here or someone can find the quote]

anyway, I was seeing odd rear tyre wear for some time, over several tyres. Around the time RT's post had me thinking about another clicker fiddling session, I came across a suspension web site that had photos of 'rebound tear' on street tyres, usually caused by too slow rebound. Uh, that's me!! It also suggested it could be caused by too fast rebound, I didn't think that applied. So I backed off the rebound till it felt too soft/fast, overall seemed better.


I agree that one of the problems is that people don't keep notes of change/effect and get "lost". Watching "Dirt Wise with Shane Watts", in it Geoff Ballard (?) made the comment that people change the factory clicker settings and persist in riding the resultant horror. He suggested they should always go back to the factory settings for reference, to check their changes were actually an improvement.

[Highlander]

i haven't

i never touch it

i know i dont know jack about it

Me too.
I know enough to admit I know nothing and leave it alone.

[warewolf]

It will be interesting to see how many have actually softened the comp, and rebound.

Me, on both KTMs, mainly comp. But they seem to be known for being too firm initially. I run the compression clickers backed a helluva long way out, sometimes all the way. As RT says, it's an indicator that a re-valve is in order.

[Robert Taylor]

Your not wrong there Robert, time and time again I see journalists saying how good modern suspension is, I'd like to know what they are basing this on, if it was that good we'd both be out of work. The problem is when people get that pissed of with a poor ride that they want it sorting out they think they can just come in, have their knobs fiddled with and ride off. They've been led to believe that's all they need, it comes as a bit of a shock when they find out the problems are more fundamental than that.

Maybe its the free lunches and the advertising revenue? But heck youve put it in a nutshell.

[Owl]

i haven't

i never touch it

i know i dont know jack about it

Yep, I'm in the same boat, though I did soften the rear on mine a fraction. It was a little nicer on the arse, but started to wallow when pushed hard in corners. I put it back to stock!