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Thread: Manslaughter charge for bloke who killed tagger

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyryder View Post
    How the hell do you get self defense when the dead boy was running away.

    Skyryder
    You cant mate. I was saying I may have believed a defense of "self defense" but... he went out with a knife, when all he had been threatened with was a young shit tagging his garage door. He took a knife to a spray can event.

    Like I said...Jury heard the evidence, I didn't. No one wins.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubb View Post
    Nonono,

    He rides the Leprachhaun at the end of the Rainbow. Usually goes by the name Anne McMommus

  2. #47
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    I fhe had not had the knife he would have been the dead one. I do not see that taking the knife amounts to premeditation. Simply a sensible precaution. I keep a Russian cavalry sabre beside the bed. If I have occasion to investigate strange noises at night I take it with me. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. So far I have not had occasion to use it, though some night soon there's going to be a headless cat running around.

    Such incidents are an inevitable consequence of the police having abandoned even the pretence of maintaining the Rule of Law. Since householders must now look to themselves for defense of their families and property, they will naturally wish to make sure that they are not the defenceless victim. Kill, or be killed. That is what our society has degenerated to.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98tls View Post
    i once met a bloke who had never been in a courthouse in his life,he came home one day to find his Mrs in the sack with someone else,what he did was pretty fucked up and at that time he still couldnt explain it,he was serving 7 years.Up until then he was just a normal Kiwi bloke with a family,job blah blah but he snapped for lack of a better word.
    Damn that bought a shiver down my spine. When I was in my teens (ok thats a whole long time ago) a friend of mums came home and found his missus in bed. Shot her (he was a hunter type) as in his state he figured that women are to blame because men just ....well lets not go there.

    He was a top bloke. I had no problems with him being in our house when he got out of prison. Just snapped.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mom View Post
    You cant mate. I was saying I may have believed a defense of "self defense" but... he went out with a knife, when all he had been threatened with was a young shit tagging his garage door. He took a knife to a spray can event.

    Like I said...Jury heard the evidence, I didn't. No one wins.
    All very well in hindsight. Would you seriously argue that he could afford to assume that the intruders were not armed, and would not kill him without hesitation. There are many cases of householders who have been killed in exactly those circumstances. Taggers are not gentle little misunderstood waifs. They are brutal thugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mom View Post
    You cant mate. I was saying I may have believed a defense of "self defense" but... he went out with a knife, when all he had been threatened with was a young shit tagging his garage door. He took a knife to a spray can event.

    Like I said...Jury heard the evidence, I didn't. No one wins.
    This could so easily have worked out the other way round,guy chases two scumbags down the road who turn and confront him resulting in his death,hundreds of police hours wasted tracking them down blah blah blah with another "fucken scumbags" thread on the all knowing Kiwi BikerFills in an otherwise boring friday night but.
    Be the person your dog thinks you are...

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    All very well in hindsight. Would you seriously argue that he could afford to assume that the intruders were not armed, and would not kill him without hesitation. There are many cases of householders who have been killed in exactly those circumstances. Taggers are not gentle little misunderstood waifs. They are brutal thugs.
    No argument here, I agree, they are little thugs, and yes, they may well be armed, ergo, dont go out and chase them down the road with a knife.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubb View Post
    Nonono,

    He rides the Leprachhaun at the end of the Rainbow. Usually goes by the name Anne McMommus

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mom View Post
    No argument here, I agree, they are little thugs, and yes, they may well be armed, ergo, dont go out and chase them down the road with a knife.
    So, what then is he to do?
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headbanger View Post
    Wasn't he referring to the farmer who shot someone riding away on his quad?
    Yes I was. That is why you need to read the quote above. e.g...

    Skyryder...
    Some years back some burglers were stealing a farm bike and one got shot in the back.........dead. Farmer got off in self defense.

    Me...
    "It was self defence. He was defending his property. You are allowed to defend yourself and your property... otherwise you may as well give the criminals the key to your front door and tell them to help themselves."
    See how a conversation works people..???

    As far as the guy that killed the kid... it was a bit stupid on his part for screwing up his own life. When it comes to street justice the cops will advise you (off the record of course)... "just don't kill them for christ sake"

    It wouldn't have made the news if he had just kicked seven colours of shit out of him.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    So, what then is he to do?
    It really didnt need to end in a death surely?
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    So, what then is he to do?
    I cant answer that to anyones satisfaction. Ignore it, go out later and paint over the tagging, complain to the cops, yell out the window, bitch to your neighbours, any one of them or many others will still not answer the what is he to do question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubb View Post
    Nonono,

    He rides the Leprachhaun at the end of the Rainbow. Usually goes by the name Anne McMommus

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    I he had not had the knife he would have been the dead one. I do not see that taking the knife amounts to premeditation. Simply a sensible precaution. I keep a Russian cavalry sabre beside the bed. If I have occasion to investigate strange noises at night I take it with me. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. So far I have not had occasion to use it, though some night soon there's going to be a headless cat running around.

    Such incidents are an inevitable consequence of the police having abandoned even the pretence of maintaining the Rule of Law. Since householders must now look to themselves for defense of their families and property, they will naturally wish to make sure that they are not the defenceless victim. Kill, or be killed. That is what our society has degenerated to.
    I agree with everything you have said bar the police bit,my old lady works at the 111 center and can testify that our society has degenerated to such a point that on a thurs/fri/sat night there's that many fuckups doing fucked up shit that has to be acknowledged that there isnt and in her opinion never will be enough cops to ever make any indent to the public's perception that they have "abandoned etc"
    Be the person your dog thinks you are...

  12. #57
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    And as you tacitly admit, none of these will ahve the slightest deterrent effetc

    Ignore it. Fine. And the next night? when the tagger, unchallenged decides to return and see if you have anything worth stealing? Or a daughter worth raping?

    Complain to the cops. Yeah, right. That's going to go a long way. Maybe they'll send a taxi to take the tagger home.

    Bitch to the neighbours. Save your breath they're in the same boat

    Yell out the window - you are simply inviting him to extend tagging to home invasion.

    Eveil unchallenged flourishes and moves on to greater evil.

    Nowadays you cannot assume that a miscreant is "only" a tagger: "only" a burglar : "only" a rapist.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  13. #58
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    Stuff like this makes me think of my own youth, when I was 15, I was a right little bastard, got up to all soughts of mischief with my mates, infact I was a little trouble maker until I joined the army in the late eighties (they soughted me out) but (back on point) I will declare that some of the shit we got up to was a bit worse than a spray can painting and with that in mind I think if I was killed for my actions it would most definately be a little extreme, and would have taken away the glowing model citizen I am today (at least in my mind)
    Hey we are all young and stupid at some period of our lives, most of us get the chance to live it out and become reasonable people, no one deserves to be killed for our troubled years.

    So for me when people start saying , "he got what he deserved" etc etc I dont really see it that way.

    I have two 14 year old boys, both young and dum and very impressionable, I would be very dissapointed if they got up to any tagging or other minor crimes, if they got killed for it by some knife welding 50 year old (that should know better) I would be completely devastated at the loss of a potentially fine young man who never had a chance to make a life, in this case as tragic as it is, I really feel that the victim got a raw deal in the court of one eyed justice.

    I also wonder what the outcome would have been if the killer was a male Maori in Ponsonby who killed a white rich kid tagging.... manslaughter lol not likely
    Ive run out of fucks to give

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasievil View Post
    when I was 15, I was a right little bastard, got up to all soughts of mischief with my mates, infact I was a little trouble maker...

    ...I have two 14 year old boys, both young and dum and very impressionable
    Well if delinquency is hereditary then maybe you wouldn't have been such a loss.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Complain to the cops. Yeah, right. That's going to go a long way. Maybe they'll send a taxi to take the tagger home.
    Our police are stretched thats for sure. Not their fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Bitch to the neighbours. Save your breath they're in the same boat
    Dont underestimate this communicating with the neighbours. As I was confronted on the street by a number of doped up thugs (in my sexy dressing gown)... they were watching and ready to come to my defence because we are aware of the problem.
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