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Thread: Manslaughter charge for bloke who killed tagger

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasievil View Post
    Stuff like this makes me think of my own youth, when I was 15, I was a right little bastard, got up to all soughts of mischief with my mates, infact I was a little trouble maker until I joined the army in the late eighties (they soughted me out) but (back on point) I will declare that some of the shit we got up to was a bit worse than a spray can painting and with that in mind I think if I was killed for my actions it would most definately be a little extreme, and would have taken away the glowing model citizen I am today (at least in my mind)
    Hey we are all young and stupid at some period of our lives, most of us get the chance to live it out and become reasonable people, no one deserves to be killed for our troubled years.

    So for me when people start saying , "he got what he deserved" etc etc I dont really see it that way.

    I have two 14 year old boys, both young and dum and very impressionable, I would be very dissapointed if they got up to any tagging or other minor crimes, if they got killed for it by some knife welding 50 year old (that should know better) I would be completely devastated at the loss of a potentially fine young man who never had a chance to make a life, in this case as tragic as it is, I really feel that the victim got a raw deal in the court of one eyed justice.

    I also wonder what the outcome would have been if the killer was a male Maori in Ponsonby who killed a white rich kid tagging.... manslaughter lol not likely
    Good post Quasi,interesting thread really and though many of the posts are at opposites each has its merits.i have no idea if this guy had kids but if so it seems they have had there lives changed by a culmination of events that ended badly.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitcher View Post
    Sensationalist bullshit. Accosting somebody in the street and stabbing them for allegedly writing their name on your garage door is not about "defending property", it's a malicious premeditated attack. The dead person was only a tagger, for heaven's sake. Let's keep things in perspective here.
    Trying not to stereotype here but having to deal with youths like this everyday I know that the tension and stress caused by these thugs is extreme. They will purposefully push you to see what your limit is. It's a laugh. Don't buy into it.

    There is very little than can legally be done to stop or correct their wayward ways. They know their rights and what they can get away with and even at 12 years of age they will intimidate adults both verbally and physically. Any response an adult takes against them can make the adult liable often for criminal and sometimes bogus charges. Kids like this don't respect you, your family or your property. If you are outside of their family, or caste you are nothing to them.

    There are some awesome kids out there. But try living or working in a low decile area where you are confronted with this everyday. Most people just turn their back.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipshit View Post
    Well if delinquency is hereditary then maybe you wouldn't have been such a loss.
    Shit thats not very nice dude, I forgot for a moment I was on KB, you reminded me, thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasievil View Post
    Stuff like this makes me think of my own youth, when I was 15, I was a right little bastard, got up to all soughts of mischief with my mates[
    Jeez if I admitted the things I got up to in my youth on here I would probably be put to death with stones. The local plod knew us by name and if anything bad happened in the neighbourhood there would be a knock at the door.

    Did I deserve to die for that? Some may say yes....but I dont think I turned out too bad given the circumstances. Some may disagree
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiKat View Post
    Trying not to stereotype here but having to deal with youths like this everyday I know that the tension and stress caused by these thugs is extreme. They will purposefully push you to see what your limit is. It's a laugh. Don't buy into it.

    There is very little than can legally be done to stop or correct their wayward ways. They know their rights and what they can get away with and even at 12 years of age they will intimidate adults both verbally and physically. Any response an adult takes against them can make the adult liable often for criminal and sometimes bogus charges. Kids like this don't respect you, your family or your property. If you are outside of their family, or caste you are nothing to them.

    There are some awesome kids out there. But try living or working in a low decile area where you are confronted with this everyday. Most people just turn their back.
    Reality at last.careful mate this is KB with posts like that your likely labelled a Knight or at least racist,its so much easier than calling a spade a spade and at least being realistic about the problem.
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  6. #66
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    It sounded like a "tag and release" fair-chase hunt...



    If you are going to deliberately stab some fucker, you would thrust the whole knife in as far as it would go.
    This knife only went in approximately one third of the length of the blade.
    "Intent"??
    "Stepped into the blade"??
    Debateable.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasievil View Post
    Stuff like this makes me think of my own youth, when I was 15, ..
    Tinmes have changed. No doubt you were a right little bastige. And not the only one. But, would you EVER have seriously considered raping or murdering someone? Would ANYONE you knew? Didn't think so.

    Nowadays, that's not true.

    I don't believe that the convicted man went out intending to kill anyone. But, he went out into an unknown. And times being what they are, he took along a weapon to defend himself. And once weapons come into the picture it's horridly easy for someone to end up dead

    Every so often , as I sleep the sleep of the godly and innocent (being a sweet gentle old man and all), Mrs Ixion will awaken me. "There's someone outside! They're trying to get into the house!" To Mrs Ixion, any noise at night is someone trying to get into the house. Me, my money's on the damned cat again. But, I can't be sure.

    Now if there *is* someone out there, maybe it's "just" a tagger. And if an omnisicient genie could pop up and reassure me that "It's just a tagger. he's going to mess up your fence then move on, you'll never see him again", then I would roll over, grunt, and reply "I'll fix it in the morning". A tagger isn't worth risking my life, or his over.

    But: I can't be sure. Nowadays, with home invasion almost a weekly event, who can say. So, I grumble, get up, and collect my aforesaid sabre, a purpose designed people killer. It's killed before , when I got it , there was a black deposit on the blade. I cleaned it and gave some of the deposit to a friend who works in a laboratory. Blood , she said.

    If you out there are *only* a tagger, I don't want you killed on that ground. The penalty would be incommensurate to the crime. But, nowadays, I have to figure you've probably got your mates along. And maybe you are *only* taggers. And maybe not.

    Tagging. Yeah, OK. I'll be pissed off. Irate. But it's not really the end of the world. But, cross the permeter of my home, threaten me or my family; that's another matter.And I don't *know* that you're "just" a tagger.

    And, I also know that whoever you are, you've probably got some mates along.And, if I cross you and come off worse, I'll end up , at best, with my head stomped to the extent that I'll be a vegetable for the rest of my days. I don't like that idea. Not at all.

    But, out I go into the night. Not much choice is there? And because I don't want to end up a vegetable, I'm going to take my people sticker with me. And , if things look dodgy, I'll use it.

    I'm not saying it's the police's fault that the Rule of Law has collapsed. But, fault or no fault, it has. The police are no longer any use to a householder needing to protect his family or property. It's down to him. And the people threatening his home and family won't , in many cases ,hesitate to kill him. And he has no way of knowing whether the people he's confronting are killers or not (Go google 'Killer Beez" ) . So , he must prepare for the worst.

    Fault doesn't come into it. Its' just reality. Whether the police cannot protect us, or will not protect us, does not matter. Either way, they're no longer part of the picture. The reality is that it's down to us. And I don't fancy being a vegetable. I suspect the guy that killed the kid thought the same way.
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  8. #68
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    So you would happily got out there with your sabre....possibley resulting in you killing someone and leaving Mrs Ixion to face the rest of her life in fear?
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  9. #69
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    Why would she live in fear because he killed someone? As for my take... Chasing him up the road isn't quite defending his property. I can't imagine someone you are chasing "falling" into your knife anyhow. Ever pressed the average kitchen knife into yourself? Unless your arm is stiff (i.e how it is when you stab someone) its actually quite hard to pierce the skin. Let alone enough to kill a kid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Headbanger View Post
    I fully support his right to chase the little fucker as far as he wants to, and to crack him around the skull.

    I don't condone killing him, Its just a tad out of balance with the initial crime.
    A crack around the skull could just as likely end in death as well, so how is your scenario any better than the one chosen? The kid could well have survived the knifing had things gone differently "on the night".

    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Such incidents are an inevitable consequence of the police having abandoned even the pretence of maintaining the Rule of Law. Since householders must now look to themselves for defense of their families and property, they will naturally wish to make sure that they are not the defenceless victim. Kill, or be killed. That is what our society has degenerated to.
    Unfortunately the Police have far more serious crimes to deal with, especially here in South Auckland so tagging etc. doesn't really come too high up the priority list. This doesn't leave Mr and Mrs Citizen with many options when it comes to trying to maintain a nice environment to live in and bring their children up in when others are hell bent on scuzzifying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadDuck View Post
    It really didnt need to end in a death surely?
    No, but then a few millimetres/centimetres/inches difference of blade placement and there may well have not been a killing, "just" a knifing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quasievil View Post
    Hey we are all young and stupid at some period of our lives, most of us get the chance to live it out and become reasonable people, no one deserves to be killed for our troubled years.
    ...
    I have two 14 year old boys, both young and dum and very impressionable, I would be very dissapointed if they got up to any tagging or other minor crimes, if they got killed for it by some knife welding 50 year old (that should know better)
    Do you think that if they remotely thought that their actions could bring about a tragedy like this to your family that they might curb their actions at all? No? Then there is sadly no lesson learnt. You do shit, you may find yourself in a deeper dunny full of it than you bargain on.

    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiKat View Post
    Trying not to stereotype here but having to deal with youths like this everyday I know that the tension and stress caused by these thugs is extreme. They will purposefully push you to see what your limit is. It's a laugh. Don't buy into it.

    There is very little than can legally be done to stop or correct their wayward ways. They know their rights and what they can get away with and even at 12 years of age they will intimidate adults both verbally and physically. Any response an adult takes against them can make the adult liable often for criminal and sometimes bogus charges. Kids like this don't respect you, your family or your property. If you are outside of their family, or caste you are nothing to them.

    There are some awesome kids out there. But try living or working in a low decile area where you are confronted with this everyday. Most people just turn their back.
    See it every day in high schools here. Some already at the age of 13 (even younger - there are some like it already at intermediate) whose are preoccupied with baiting, knowing full well there is absolutely stuff all you can do about it. They love it, knowing that your hands are tied. As a teacher it takes a lot of self control not to rise to the bait, but there are many times that even that in itself drives them to needle you even harder. Quite frustrating. A few you will finally reach by continuing to appeal to their better side, but many are not remotely interested in being a productive, cooperative member of school/society whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadDuck View Post
    Jeez if I admitted the things I got up to in my youth on here I would probably be put to death with stones. The local plod knew us by name and if anything bad happened in the neighbourhood there would be a knock at the door.
    And therein lies a big difference MadDuck - communities are so widespread and transient these days that a certain degree of anonymity gives a lot of hoodlums a fair amount of protection. This coupled with the fact that many of them know that what they're doing often isn't of much interest or concern to the Police leaves them with pretty much a free hand to do what they like without fear of consequence. They rely heavily on the fact that the Police are overworked, under resourced, and simply have more "serious" issues to deal with.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by wbks View Post
    Why would she live in fear because he killed someone? As for my take... Chasing him up the road isn't quite defending his property. I can't imagine someone you are chasing "falling" into your knife anyhow. Ever pressed the average kitchen knife into yourself? Unless your arm is stiff (i.e how it is when you stab someone) its actually quite hard to pierce the skin. Let alone enough to kill a kid
    Yea yea yea,if per chance you wake up look out the bedroom window to see some cunt fuckin with something of yours what would you do?Possibly say "no worries fella have a ball" but i doubt it.
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  12. #72
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    No I would probably go ape shit but I don't think I would use a knife. I support that he went out there to deal to the little bastard...Not that he was lethal about it. Fuck, a punch in the face would suffice.

  13. #73
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    Use some imagination. There are plenty of other options than clubbing or stabbing somebody to death, or even putting yourself in danger.
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  14. #74
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    Like calling the police?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessBandit View Post
    And therein lies a big difference MadDuck - communities are so widespread and transient these days that a certain degree of anonymity gives a lot of hoodlums a fair amount of protection. This coupled with the fact that many of them know that what they're doing often isn't of much interest or concern to the Police leaves them with pretty much a free hand to do what they like without fear of consequence. They rely heavily on the fact that the Police are overworked, under resourced, and simply have more "serious" issues to deal with.
    Yeah I guess I see where you are coming from. I moved away from Auckland to get away from the crap. Now I have had 5 nice years of peaceful living which was mighty fine I have to tell you. But it seems to be over.

    The Orewa Police Station has become a major unit which it never was before. And thats nothing to do with the ATNR
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