Curmudgeon
Originally Posted by Swoop
There is a documented case of a hellfire hitting a Palestinian Ambulance.
This means either the missile is not so accurate or the IDF is targeting Ambulances, what do you reckon?
Notwithstanding that I was using the hellfire as an example of indiscriminate IDF fire. How else do you explain the 200+ dead children in the past week or so?
Curmudgeon
So are you saying that those dead and injured are faking it?
Hamas killed them?
They died of natural causes?
What?
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
Who knows. The Hellfire goes where it is guided.
Perhaps the hamas terrorists are using ambulances to transport weapons around? A bit like the Argentinians storing weapons in a building that had a big red cross painted on the roof...
That the terrorists are doing a fine job of dragging the media around to show them exactly what they want the media to see...
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
Curmudgeon
Then I don't see your point. Hamas kills children with unguided missiles, the IDF kills children (albeit it much more efficiently) with guided ones.
Is there summat that they don't want the media to see?
Perhaps the media are interested in what they're being shown.
The UN certainly is.
Medics in Gaza say latest casualties include at least 60 people affected by suspected phosphorus shells fired illegally near civilian areas.Israeli defence officials are now saying one of the deadliest recent incidents in Gaza, when a UN school was bombed, was caused by a stray mortar.
The attack killed about 40 Palestinian civilians sheltering at the Fakhura school in Jabaliya on Tuesday.All quotes from the BBC.Separately, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said an alleged failure of the Israeli military to help wounded civilians in Gaza could constitute a war crime.
Again, I would stress here that I'm not backing either side, a pox on them both. I just find it strange that some of us would back the side that is most efficient at killing the innocent.
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
When we regard the media...
Let's compare what they are saying about another popular excursion into the outback and what is actually happening.
Lies That Work.
The Taliban had a bad year in 2008. Their losses were up, and the armed resistance by tribal militias to Taliban activities increased. The Taliban campaign against education continues to be enormously unpopular, as is the increasing number of civilians (especially children) killed by Taliban suicide and roadside bombings.
In an attempt to reverse their plunging reputation, the Taliban recently announced that they had killed 5,220 foreign troops last year (the actual number was 286). The Taliban also claimed to have shot down 31 aircraft last year (the actual number was zero). The Taliban also claimed to have destroyed 2,818 vehicles (that's about ten times the actual number) and killed 7,552 Afghan policemen and soldiers (again, about ten times the actual number.) The Taliban accused the Afghan, and foreign, governments of conducting a huge cover up by claiming much lower numbers.
To Westerners, these claims are absurd. In the West, there is a free press and free exchange of information. Hiding losses would be impossible. But to your average Afghan, a free press, and free access to information, is a rather foreign concept. So the conspiracy alleged by the Taliban has some credibility. Moreover, those who are leaning towards backing the Taliban, would be more inclined to believe the Taliban lies. The Taliban announcement was not meant to convince Westerners, but those people the Taliban already has some backing from. The Taliban want to encourage their followers and persuade those who are potential backers. So the Taliban claims make sense as an Information War tactics. Absurd data, but directed at an audience where the lies will have a positive effect.
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
Curmudgeon
An impressive rebuttal, but completely off the point.
The media we're discussing is the free press (the BBC in this instance).
Would you like to explain how they've been mislead?
Is Hamas lying about the 600 or so dead in Gaza?
Is the BBC lying?
Ps. Hamas is not the Taliban and Afghanistan is a long way from Gaza...
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
The guided missiles are being aimed at people who "possibly" deserve them. The terrorists are quite adept at surrounding themselves with the general population.
Have you heard how many hamas terrorists ("fighters") have been killed?
Indescriminate killing via unguided rockets?
That is like the comparison between the RAF/USAAF "carpet bombing" of WW2 and laser-guided munitions of modern times.
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
Media manipulation.
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
Curmudgeon
"Possibly" deserve them?
On that logic, you'd look up the entire population of South Auckland because they're "possibly" criminals.
Does that mean if yer dead body turned out to be innocent, they'd get a pardon from the IDF?
In the meantime the IDF have killed in excess of 200 children to achieve their mission.
And yes, the terrorists are quite adept at surrounding themselves with the general population BECAUSE THEY LIVE THERE. If they didn't they wouldn't be terrorists, would they? They'd be regular soldiers and last about five minutes up against the IDF.
It is proven without a doubt that both sides use unguided and indiscriminate weapons (vis. the IDF's admission about mortaring the school above). It's just that the IDF is better at it. I must find out how many terrorists have been killed, but in the meantime, what ratio of dead children / dead terrorists do you think is acceptable?
Curmudgeon
You are undoubtedly manipulating something...Media manipulation.
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
Yes. Thinking from a legal standpoint... If a person is seen running down a road with their RPG, they are "presumed innocent" until a court of law finds them guilty...
"Living there" is different to standing within blast radius... or perhaps "aiding and abetting".
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
Curmudgeon
As much as some here would like it too, a large explosion that vaporises everyone in the immediate area does not constitute "due process of the law".Yes. Thinking from a legal standpoint... If a person is seen running down a road with their RPG, they are "presumed innocent" until a court of law finds them guilty...
As I said, they live there.
When you are fighting an overwhelming military force you become a "Terrorist" or a "Freedom Fighter" (depending on whether yer on our side or not). Then you hide in plain view (beats staging your puny force against the army and getting killed by some fuck off big cannon) - that way, every time the aforementioned overwhelming military force try to kill you (and aren't damned careful) they get some innocents. This not only gets you great media attention, but lots of new recruits ("...I wanna kill those IDF bastids, coz they killed my Mum.." - in Arabic of course).
And those dumb fucking Israelis are falling right into this trap (again).
Can you imagine the British Army using artillery and guided missiles on the Falls Road? (God knows some of that IRA scum deserved it)
That is exactly what's happening here...the only thing it guarantees is that this hellish situation will fester for another coupla generations.
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
Interesting. You have created you own circular argument.
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
Curmudgeon
It is not a circular argument.
If you had of paid attention earlier, you would have noticed that I don't support either side.
They are both murdering innocent people in their own way for their own ends.
A pox on both of them.
The only reason that I'm not arguing with HAMAS supporters as vociferously is that there aren't any here.
My contention is that the IDF are being dumb by trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. They are playing right into the broader HAMAS / Al Queda / {insert Muslim terror group here} long term stratergy.
Who you gonna call!
I think you need to go and study your history again if you think germany was the aggressor
Second is the fastest loser
"It is better to have ridden & crashed than never to have ridden at all" by Bruce Bennett
DB is the new Porridge. Cause most of the mods must be sucking his cock ..... Or his giving them some oral help? How else can you explain it?
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