Minto

**ManDownUnder** · 9th January 2009, 08:41

Minto's just a professional protester. He sees a cause, organises signs, people, and a venue - and goes at it.

His principle tactic is to raise attention to things by annoying people that (quite often) don't deserve it. I think it's fair he shouold be annoyed back, regularly...

**Jantar** · 9th January 2009, 08:45

Originally Posted by slowpoke

As usual we choose to shoot the messenger rather than listen to the message. .........

So? Reading all of your post, I cannot see one single reference to how this young female tennis player has contributed to any of the situation in Israel/Palistine.

Can anyone please explain why Minto is picking on a young female who wasn't even born when most of the issues being raised by the pro Palestine posters on here even occured?

**ManDownUnder** · 9th January 2009, 08:49

Originally Posted by Jantar

Can anyone please explain why Minto is picking on a young female who wasn't even born when most of the issues being raised by the pro Palestine posters on here even occured?

It's obviously her fault - in exactly the same way that I'm personally responsible for confiscating Maori land

**Bass** · 9th January 2009, 10:08

Can I point out that the original post was regarding protestors having a go at a tennis player. Therefore discussion of the conflict in Gaza is off topic. It is related but not relevant. Separate thread seems appropriate.

For me, the ultimate irony in all this was the protestor's placard shown in this morning's herald which said something to the effect of "bullying is not OK".
How else would you define a bunch like this having a go at a 22 year old female?

**Oscar** · 9th January 2009, 10:19

Minto has no right to harass an individual going about her trade.
Maybe if she was part of a National Team...

As for the rest, it's a genuine "no win" argument.

Now that the Superpowers have stopped using the region as a pissing competition area, it is full of confusion.

Israel is overreacting to a problem that it had a hand in creating, slowly choking the life of Gaza and then pretending to be surprised when trouble erupted.

Hamas are playing the victim, but essentially using their own people as human shields for their fighters. The people were crazy to elect Hamas, but several generations of economic oppression, occupation and violence will do that to you.

The problem with discussing this problem is perspective.

You have to go back to at least Balfour to really get a handle on this problem, but most people only go back to 9/11, or 1948 at best. GO back a century, at that point you can see how the bad guys become our friends and the oppressed become the oppressors.

For example - King David Hotel - Jewish Terrorists including one future Israeli PM murder innocent civilians. Or how 'bout how the Israeli Army stood by and let Christian Druze Militia kill refugees in Lebanon? In the meantime Hamas and other Arab terrorist randomly lob rockets into Israel and horrorify the Western sensibilities with suicide weapons.

If you think you can see a good guy in this mess, think again. The only certainty about the Middle East is that everyone has blood on their hands...

**Swoop** · 9th January 2009, 11:02

I have been informed and invited by a workmate, that there will be another protest tomorrow in Auckland, at midday.
I am quite tempted to go along and protest against the terrorists.

Originally Posted by Oscar

The people were crazy to elect Hamas

Yes, well.
The alternative was "vote for us and we'll govern Gaza".
Hamas worked on "Vote for us or we'll kill you and your family".
Terrorists, huh?

**MisterD** · 9th January 2009, 11:10

Originally Posted by imdying

/edit: Oscar makes a good point... other than by birth, is she actually officially representing Israel?

No, but she'd probably get a ticker-tape parade in Tel Aviv if she won Wimbledon...

**enigma51** · 9th January 2009, 12:07

What get me about protestors is the once that sit on this side of the world never even been to the place in question and shout foul play.

They base there arguments on what goes on in the media and the media is going to go for the losers cause that sells.

for example

Media start off blah blah blah gaza is suffering massive bombs
shows you people carring kids etc etc. Then says the whole world is up in arms..... israel so bad blah blah then comes the small 1 second print this war was started with hamash launching 90 home made bomb into israel a day for months

Then another one hamash main military leader who was hero to the palistine and trained countless suicide bombers is killed with his family israel is so bad blah blah blah sanctions blah blah blah blah

**slowpoke** · 10th January 2009, 02:57

Originally Posted by Maha

I agree Ned, the thread is about Minto, seems to be alot of Religous Raving going on.

Exactly my point Jantar, she also paid her own way to come down here and play, only to be greeted with Steptoe's double chanting on about shit that no doubt concerns her but she has no political agenda what so ever, shs's a tennis player.

Well thats one vote...

Thanks Neil, all the war analizing and biblical learning is kinda weird.

PS: Like the tags...even a Maconroe Quote

Let me get this straight: you want to shoot the messenger without discussing his message? And you are calling other people weird?

**ManDownUnder** · 10th January 2009, 06:09

Originally Posted by slowpoke

Let me get this straight: you want to shoot the messenger without discussing his message? And you are calling other people weird?

Can't speak for Maha - but pretty much... yes.

Minto's message is that the Tennis player should pass up her hard earned right to a living, and the chance for advancement in her chosen career to demonstrate she is against Israel's actions...

1) Does he know she actually IS against them?
2) Does he expect her to do it just in NZ or globally. If it was just in NZ that'd be a tad hypocritical don't you think - taking one side here, and the other side in OZ and the US and...etc
3) Does the Israeli tennis player get reimbursed for her trip - now lain to waste if she was to support Minto and "the cause"
4) What is John Minto giving up for the cause? He's asking others to give stuff up (quite a lot in fact)... but I'm unclear what sacrifices he's making. Again - a tad hypocritical.

So in this case - I'm happy to attack the message and the messenger. The message is BS due to her relationship with the problem at hand (i.e. there is NO way she's responsible at all). The Messenger is BS - he's a hypocrite, shit stirrer and jumps on anything that looks like a cause. He's a professional protestor which I personally have a problem with. My response is something akin to "get a real job".

To paraprase a statement I made earlier... she's as responsible for the actions of Israel you are for taking Maori land. Or are you going to give your share back?

**Maha** · 10th January 2009, 06:42

Originally Posted by slowpoke

Let me get this straight: you want to shoot the messenger without discussing his message? And you are calling other people weird?

Yes thats correct.
Start another thread dedicated to the middle east crap if you want.

**slowpoke** · 10th January 2009, 07:16

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

Can't speak for Maha - but pretty much... yes.

His message is that the Tennis player should pass up her hard earned right to a living, and the chance for advancement in her chosen career to demonstrate she is against Israel's actions...

1) Does he know she actually IS against them?
2) Does he expect her to do it just in NZ or globally. If it was just in NZ that'd be a tad hypocritical don't you think - taking one side here, and the other side in OZ and the US and...etc
3) Does the Israeli tennis player get reimbursed for her trip - now lain to waste if she was to support Minto and "the cause"
4) What is John Minto giving up for the cause? He's asking others to give stuff up (quite a lot in fact)... but I'm unclear what sacrifices he's making. Again - a tad hypocritical.

So in this case - I'm happy to attack the message and the messenger. The message is BS due to her relationship with the problem at hand (i.e. there is NO way she's responsible at all). The Messenger is BS - he's a hypocrite, shit stirrer and jumps on anything that looks like a cause. He's a professional protestor which I personally have a problem with. My response is something akin to "get a real job".

To paraprase a statement I made earlier... she's as responsible for the actions of Israel you are for taking Maori land. Or are you going to give your share back?

Easy big fella, this is about Minto remember, apparently we aren't supposed to actually discuss the issues. Maybe you'd like to start another thread......

I can't recall seeing too many protesting jobs advertised in The Dominion so calling him, or any protestor, a "professional" may be stretching the bounds of credibility.

Despite his protest being more along the lines of a hobby than a paid line of work he hasn't done too bad a job. He's succeeded in getting people to actually talk about it (evidence right here) and maybe just a few will actually want to educate themselves further and learn more about the issues rather than just ignoring a shitty situation.