Codgyold racer F3

[FROSTY:Me]

Well it looks like Codgys trying for a repeat of his nationals win last year. in F3
At the end of the three south island national rounds Hes currently leading the points -sitting 72 points in front of his nearest competition Terry Fitzgerald
For those that don't know there are now 6 races to go with a maximum points per race of 25 for a win. 20 for second and 16 for third.
Mind you Jason Easton hasn't really been in contention on his new tigcraft due to mechanical issues, Jason Nairne has found some HP from his bike but was struck down with Pneumonia puting him out for a few weeks . And Andy Bowells sponsered rider young mr Debour (Sp sorry) might be a dark horse in the next couple of rounds He's currently sitting third.
What worries me a little is just by doing every round of the south island slowpoke frosty would at least be sitting in 10th place in the nationals -the feilds are that small. Hopefully the north island will see more out there

EDIT--- codgy has (provisionally) clinched the title at the minfeild --with 2 wins and a second place

[FROSTY:Me]

bump bump a lump

[eelracing]

Boring


Don't get me wrong coz' Glen,Jason x 2 and co are very talented riders but it has got to be said... MNZ have totally fucked F3.

F3 should be a cheap (read standard as SV's + 400/450cc)feeder class to give young racers and up n comers a chance to measure themselves against each other on equal machinery.
Just look at any F3 club championships,they are packed with 400/450cc bikes.
MNZ say they (bikes)are to old.I say MNZ is out of touch as the reality is the NAT grids are fucking pathetic.

Also the sooner NZ goes back to true production racing the better.The costs now are out of a regular joes means and if we want to build motorcycle racing back into a strong position i think some reality has to be injected into MNZ.

And if any racer want's to shoot me down coz "i hav'nt worked,put in the hard yards blah blah blah" they can kiss my hairy arse as i'm talking about the future of the whole sport in NZ.

Coz' the NOW aint working.

[slowpoke]

Boring


Don't get me wrong coz' Glen,Jason x 2 and co are very talented riders but it has got to be said... MNZ have totally fucked F3.

F3 should be a cheap (read standard as SV's + 400/450cc)feeder class to give young racers and up n comers a chance to measure themselves against each other on equal machinery.
Just look at any F3 club championships,they are packed with 400/450cc bikes.
MNZ say they (bikes)are to old.I say MNZ is out of touch as the reality is the NAT grids are fucking pathetic.

Also the sooner NZ goes back to true production racing the better.The costs now are out of a regular joes means and if we want to build motorcycle racing back into a strong position i think some reality has to be injected into MNZ.

And if any racer want's to shoot me down coz "i hav'nt worked,put in the hard yards blah blah blah" they can kiss my hairy arse as i'm talking about the future of the whole sport in NZ.

Coz' the NOW aint working.

Kissy kissy hairy arsey!!!

I'm gonna disagree with ya on a coupla points mate:

1. I don't think F3 is about young riders competing on equal machinery. It's the one 'experimental' lateral thinking, build it in your shed type class we have left. If you want equal machinery and cheap racing then look at Pro Twins but the grids there are pretty poor too. The option of cheap racing is there but not many are taking it up.

2. If costs are out of a regular joes means then why are club fields bulging, and bumping slower riders into Clubman's etc. Also why do 600 and SV riders etc cross enter into other classes thereby doubling their running costs?

3. The low numbers are only evident at nationals meetings (in every class), not at a club level where grids are packed.

From the above, the problem as I see it is something to with the Nationals. Racers don't even turn up to their local Nationals meeting.

In summary: if racers are maxing out club grids it can't be too expensive. If racers won't even turn up to their local Nationals event it can't be soley put down to travel. I'm not sure if it's a fear of failure, general apathy with regards Nationals or what, but it's got me fucked how the club scene looks so healthy yet it's not reflected at the highest level.

[steveyb]

God knows where this half baked idea that Formula 3 is about cheap beginner bikes for beginner riders has come from.
Look at the name, Formula 3. Have a think about that.
Start with Formula 1, then Formula 2, then Formula 3.
Fundamentally these are classes designed around an engine capacity range and then a suite of rules within which one can build a machine to ones hearts content.
Formula 3 is simply the small capacity version of Formula 1 and is the last 'Formula' class where people can engineer bikes, we have left.

I note that you mention cheap (standard as SV's and 400/450's). Where can you buy a cheap 450? Where can you buy a true production 450?
For f's sake, get out of this mindset that Formula 3 is about beginners and cheapies.

As mentioned we now have the Pro-Twin class for the 'cheapie' part of the equation, so go for your life. The racing is fantastic and the bikes should be cheap and you can't get more True Production than that. Any arguments with that? Why are grids small? I think it is because the grids are small.

The good old Kiwi attitude again. Oh, theres no one doing that, so it must be shit!

Rather than, Wow, look, something new and innovative that levels the playing feild and provides me with an opportunity to enter into this great sport for a reasonable amount of money!!!!

But, shit, I can't really ride that well and this class doesn't allow me to buy horsepower and burgle it, so, nah fk it, I'll just say it's shit.

As also mentioned elsewhere, I think that riders are being turned away from the nationals by other people putting them off, rather than anything truely fundamentally wrong with the set up or their abilities.

The good old Kiwi knocking machine is well and truely in full flight here and really has never gone away.

Why do we enjoy watching MotoGP and WSBK (which by the way, the bikes bare almost no resemblence to a production bike once you scratch the surface) etc, but we just have to bag anyone in NZ that puts in the effort and $ to build a good racebike?

God what a lot of fkn whingers!

There were some riders in the clubman class at Chch who were perfectly capable of running in the SBK class, albeit at the rear of the feild, but perfectly cabable. Why didn't they? Sure they have their reasons, but I mention this only by way of example that riders all over the place are simply not entering when in fact they can manage it.

Are there some riders who cannot stand the thought of leaving their big fish
in a small pond at club level to be an also ran at National level?
Maybe these riders need to get a grip?

Anyway, gotta run, theres a small pond waiting for me somewhere.

Enjoy

[codgyoleracer]

Hey Frosty - thanks for the suport mate ;-)

With respect to class sizes - as slowpoke says its a little hard to put finger on why club level racing in all classes is so strong yet nationals are less so, however here are some things to consider.......

One reason is that generally speaking only the fast guys - with the best gear see the nationals as their true environment to test both their machines & their riding skills. Maybe the club guys feel that they are unable to lift to this level ?
Also the entry fees are way steeper and the commitment of time away to do the full series is rather dautning for many (i find this darn inconvienient myself as i try to run my business).

As far as costs to build a bike go - I kid you not , my one cost me bugger all this year (my main cost was when i built the thing up from scratch two years ago), - subsequent seasons have cost very little. This is one of the good things about F3, You can build a competitive machine & it remains competitve year after year , this when compared to a production based class when updating to the latest and greatest each year simply comes with the territory.

Another indactor for motorsport class reduction is that the V8 car classes are down 35% in field size. Bikes are down only 20%, - so it is not an endemic trait specific to our sport. Times are a tougher & field numbers are subsequently affected.

MNZ has not fooked F3, the 400 machines with good suspension fitted & well prepped can still kick an SV's arse (I know of three in this country that have a darn good chance of doing just that to me on mine) - when well ridden.
The reality is that the many of the 400 punters - are in it for the fun factor and close racing, most of the 400 guys i speak to know very well that they could build up a competitive machine (should they want to), - but very few have the nationals goal in mind - & choose to spend their hard earned dosh on beer & women instead ! , & theres nothing wrong with that IMO.

As Slowpoke says - There is a low cost feeder class (pro-twins) in New Zealand , but even that is poorley supported at national level, - so we must assume that it is not infact machine costs that keeps the club guys away from entering - but infact time commitment issues, percieved performance/results and the many operational / consumable costs involved in keeping even an inexpensive racing machine like a protwin competive at the top level. (remembering that NO motorsport is cheap)

Lets all hope that the riders that are curently keeping the NZ nationals going - maintain their commitments to the series and do their best to support as many new riders into the scene at club level (a feeder to nationals). It is a true national series & the skills of the guys ( & gals) in it are very high. lap records continue to fall every year as a result of this - and the goals of achievment are set ever higher.........

Cheers
Glen Williams

[Nicksta]

In summary: if racers are maxing out club grids it can't be too expensive. If racers won't even turn up to their local Nationals event it can't be soley put down to travel. I'm not sure if it's a fear of failure, general apathy with regards Nationals or what, but it's got me fucked how the club scene looks so healthy yet it's not reflected at the highest level.

you guys both have valid points..... there is plenty of track time to be had in club level.. SV's cross from F3 to F2, 400 cross if able from f3 to postys Jnr... they are both good classes and the differences are exciting to watch.. i've had awesome tussles with Sv's before on my 400 and loved it.

only thing i will point out about F3 at national level is the fact that you spend a lot more money than a club event and you HAVE to qualify within 115% of the fastest racer... look at Glen around manfeild... pulling 1.12's means we have to qualify with a 1.22.8 a time i only achieved after my 2nd year of racing that track in a full winter series.... i came 8th in F3 for the winter series... now you put me at national level and i barely qualify.. that cuts out a whole load of 400 racers that would normally run mid pack from even competing.... so national level is that step up...

[Quasievil]

What we need in all classes is regulation, most classes are won with talent (yes) and cheque books.

Im all for brake tyres and suspension mods only in all classes except for any labelled "open"

Look at the feilds in this years nationals, bloody pathetic what 8-9 bikes in F1......spare me what a joke!! no wonder the TV dont offer any coverage and spectators arent there.

[Nicksta]

ps... Glen.. if you ever want to upgrade your bike and sell it cheap.... keep me in mind!

[codgyoleracer]

ps... Glen.. if you ever want to upgrade your bike and sell it cheap.... keep me in mind!

Will do Nicksta, - but it will likely be retired to a glass case one day when i am old n slow.........

[svr]

... one day when i am old n slow.........

Half way there Codgy!

I think the actual F3 `formula' is pretty good (and time proven). Maybe the 250 rules are too restrictive. That people complain their $2500 bike is uncompetitive at national level seems a little ridiculous. One thing about a formula bike is that you can keep it for several years and keep building to budget - I remember Andy Bowell racing his thing back in the early 90s, and Terry Fitz has raced more or less non-stop in F3 for 20 yrs on a total of 4 different bikes.
Obviously racing the full nationals competitively is a little out of reach financially for most younger racers unless they have either serious backing or serious commitment (read `willingness to borrow'). The pattern is that young racers do it once, get their arse kicked and probably crash a bit, learn heaps but disappear. Or, less common, come back in a year or two as much better riders with better preparation.
The best intro is probably to race the nationals in your island, trying to ignore the big entry fees (!), and treat it as a learning experience - better than doing lots of club racing at the same speed.

[discodan]

I fully understand why people who are not that serious about their racing don't want to enter a national round. With the entry fee, pit space and a new set of tyres you are looking at a lot of money that will pay for a few club races.

But when else do you get the chance to race with the best riders in New Zealand? I'd rather finish last in a field of good riders than first in a field of slow riders.

BTW, good on ya Glen you are doing awsome. I hope you are doing the Winter Series again to set the mark for us

[svr]

I fully understand why people who are not that serious about their racing don't want to enter a national round. With the entry fee, pit space and a new set of tyres you are looking at a lot of money that will pay for a few club races.

But when else do you get the chance to race with the best riders in New Zealand? I'd rather finish last in a field of good riders than first in a field of slow riders.

It is a 2 day meeting of course, you get to see the other classes race, and those tyres will keep for club racing. Also, getting thrashed by codgey et al keeps ya nice and humble for another year

[codgyoleracer]

Thanks Dan / Paul,
Tyres can certainly be stored away for a practice day in the off-season - or the occasional club round.
Am in doubt at the moment for the full winter series (the wife says i have to catch up on some DIY projects around the ranch, so might have to leave it to you guys :-).
Cheers
Glen

[wbks]

Hey, I don't know a lot about road racing obviously, so can I ask why with what looks to me like a pretty good lead and already a title in the class, you haven't gone up to Formula 2?