What is this "vanishing point" nonsense?

[BMWST?]

Yep, nice post.

Not all riders are experienced so its a learning method. Basically its the "Look where you want to go, not where you are" advice. If you look at the rock face on the outside of a corner - thats what you'll hit. But if you look through/around the corner to where it goes out of sight, that is where you will steer the bike.

The Vanishing Point also stops you concentrating on the road just in front of the bike - if you do that, you won't see the corner tightening or hazards ahead in the middle distance. By looking ahead you get much earlier warning.

thats a nice explanation

[MSTRS:Me]

For sure, Tony.
There is another sort of VP if I may raise that now. That is, the one defined by the crown of a hill. We've all had to deal with this sort at some point, especially when riding the less travelled roads.
You know the one....happily trundling along (using the VP to negotiate those unfamiliar corners, of course) and then the road rises in front of you and lo! and behold!, it disappears in an immediate downhill. Which is totally hidden whilst you are still approaching the crest. There is nothing to give you any pointers about what happens directly over the brow. These are the ones that really give me the shits. Because I have 3 choices to pick from (until I'm over the crest) and can only slow in anticipation of the road doing something dangerous. Like drop immediately into a tightening and steepening right hander...

[McDuck]

For sure, Tony.
There is another sort of VP if I may raise that now. That is, the one defined by the crown of a hill. We've all had to deal with this sort at some point, especially when riding the less travelled roads.
You know the one....happily trundling along (using the VP to negotiate those unfamiliar corners, of course) and then the road rises in front of you and lo! and behold!, it disappears in an immediate downhill. Which is totally hidden whilst you are still approaching the crest. There is nothing to give you any pointers about what happens directly over the brow. These are the ones that really give me the shits. Because I have 3 choices to pick from (until I'm over the crest) and can only slow in anticipation of the road doing something dangerous. Like drop immediately into a tightening and steepening right hander...

Is that what Youngatart went down on?

[yungatart]

No McD, it was a tightening up, steepening left hander...

[Sully60]

Is that what Youngatart went down on?

I don't know if that question is entirely suitable for this thread

[yungatart]

I don't know if that question is entirely suitable for this thread

Please don't worry on my account...it is well known that I only go down on roads

[Sully60]

Please don't worry on my account...it is well known that I only go down on roads

I knew you were a lady of standards, as you were.

[Tony W]

For sure, Tony.
There is another sort of VP if I may raise that now. That is, the one defined by the crown of a hill. We've all had to deal with this sort at some point, especially when riding the less travelled roads.
You know the one....happily trundling along (using the VP to negotiate those unfamiliar corners, of course) and then the road rises in front of you and lo! and behold!, it disappears in an immediate downhill. Which is totally hidden whilst you are still approaching the crest. There is nothing to give you any pointers about what happens directly over the brow. These are the ones that really give me the shits. Because I have 3 choices to pick from (until I'm over the crest) and can only slow in anticipation of the road doing something dangerous. Like drop immediately into a tightening and steepening right hander...

I adjust my speed before blind crests - enough to stop if there happens to be a tractor parked in the middle of my lane !
I apply the same rule to corners.


So, NOW I understand the basic theory of VP....

It's just a euphamism, for... PLAIN OLD COMMON SENSE.

[cowboyz]

You will be surprised how uncommon common sense is........

[nodrog:Me]

there are various vanishing points on New Zealands roads, most of them are concerntrated on the Coromandel Peninsular. they are hard to spot, and in most cases you cant see them. the only giveaway is usually a single black skidmark leading into the bushes or a bank, with no other signs of motorcycle or rider.

[quickbuck]

You will be surprised how uncommon common sense is........

So true that....
Apparently I have to spread the bling before giving it to you again.

[GrayWolf]

wrong, counter steering works just the same on harleys

You are totaly correct mate. I see them frequently steering their way to the shop counter to buy this weeks add on, or genuine hardley ridable 'personalising accessory' just like 100,00 others have done.

[Lucy]

Yes. Up to a point. After that, as you proceed into and through the corner, what was hidden by the curve will come into view at the same rate as your forward momentum. As long as the curve remains constant. If it tightens, then the VP will get closer to you. And vice versa.
I can't tell you what the ideal distance to VP is, perhaps it is different for each of us. All I know is that I do use this technique (to a certain extent) to judge what speed I do into and through a corner. Especially on unfamiliar roads - if I don't know what to expect, I need some clues before I get there. The moving VP (relative to me) is a good one.

Ok this has now seriously improved my riding and enjoyment of riding. On my GN I loved twisties, but I have never felt as comfortable riding the Bigger bike, and up til now, having the power has made the straight roads not boring either so I've not had to ride any. But I've been a real wuss on windy roads, which, living on the doorstep of the Parapara highway has been rather a waste.

Today, I rode to Wanganui, and using the method of keeping the VP a constant distance away, forced me to look further ahead to where I wanted to go (doh) and I swear, I actually leaned the bike again, and I'm almost certain I got my knee down....below the level of the other knee. Other benefits were: Not coming to an almost complete stop on the 35km corners, and not getting spooked by oncoming traffic if I was mid corner.

I've read about the vanishing point, and they went over it at RRRS, but I only just 'got it' from this thread.

Muchas gracias

[OutForADuck]

The VP is the bees knees (to show my age). and it means both the crest of a hill and the corner convergence as it should be taken as "as far as you can see into the distance along the path of the road.

I'm teaching my boy to drive (and ride ) and he is amazed at how I can tell him when he is no longer watching the VP even if I have my eyes closed or I'm talking with someone in the back... but as soon as he takes his eyes off the VP his driving get jerkier and slower.. its instant and obvious and a great tool for getting him to think I'm a driving God . Chase the VP and you'll instantly be safer, faster and smoother... keepign it up is the hard part (that's what I tell my missus anyway )

[MSTRS:Me]

Well done, Lucy. I'm pleased that you've been able to 'get' something that helps from this thread.
People have argued for years that Counter-steering does/does not exist...no matter, if you are moving at anything over 15/20 kph then counter-steering IS happening. It is not a matter of choice. But the VP theory is another matter. Some use it, some may not...But I'd say that those who do (whether aware of it or not) ride smoother and more consistently because they are focussing on a point well ahead, thereby giving themselves more reaction time IF a problem presents ahead of them.