What is this "vanishing point" nonsense?

**quickbuck** · 5th February 2009, 23:41

Originally Posted by P n G

wrong, counter steering works just the same on harleys

Can you say sarcasm?

...... I knew you could.....

**Jerry74** · 6th February 2009, 00:50

Originally Posted by quickbuck

Can you say sarcasm?

...... I knew you could.....

more like prayer assisted steering

**mikeey01** · 6th February 2009, 09:29

Originally Posted by Tony W

Would someone be kind enough to explain what this is when cornering.

I think I saw it in a bike mag once, with photos, but couldn't figure out what they were on about.

Surely anybody can see if a corner is opening up or tightening !..
or am I riding too slowly, so the point vanishes before I can get to it...!

I am now ready for my lesson...

this what you mean?
http://www.cvam-advanced-riders.co.u...raft_vanishing

As MKTRS explained it, nice.

**MSTRS:Me** · 6th February 2009, 12:12

Originally Posted by Tony W

But surely, even if you walk to a corner, the VP will get closer to you.

Yes. Up to a point. After that, as you proceed into and through the corner, what was hidden by the curve will come into view at the same rate as your forward momentum. As long as the curve remains constant. If it tightens, then the VP will get closer to you. And vice versa.
I can't tell you what the ideal distance to VP is, perhaps it is different for each of us. All I know is that I do use this technique (to a certain extent) to judge what speed I do into and through a corner. Especially on unfamiliar roads - if I don't know what to expect, I need some clues before I get there. The moving VP (relative to me) is a good one.

**puddy** · 6th February 2009, 18:58

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Yes. Up to a point. After that, as you proceed into and through the corner, what was hidden by the curve will come into view at the same rate as your forward momentum. As long as the curve remains constant. If it tightens, then the VP will get closer to you. And vice versa.
I can't tell you what the ideal distance to VP is, perhaps it is different for each of us. All I know is that I do use this technique (to a certain extent) to judge what speed I do into and through a corner. Especially on unfamiliar roads - if I don't know what to expect, I need some clues before I get there. The moving VP (relative to me) is a good one.

FUCK! I just ride the thing (and try not to crash)!

**yachtie10** · 7th February 2009, 17:33

It was a great movie
worth watching just for the hot naked girl riding the motorbike (a great memory from my youth)

**Lucy** · 7th February 2009, 19:46

Originally Posted by MSTRS

. So you slow down by whatever is required to ensure that that apparent intersection remains at a constant distance. You are now at the 'natural' speed for that particular corner. )[/SIZE]

Wow, that wordy, technical and quite long explanation worked for me!

I've always had trouble with it too, but after reading that this morning I used it/thought about it today on my ride, and it all fell into place.

Thanks Mstrs!

**sinned** · 7th February 2009, 22:03

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Yes. Up to a point. After that, as you proceed into and through the corner, what was hidden by the curve will come into view at the same rate as your forward momentum. As long as the curve remains constant. If it tightens, then the VP will get closer to you. And vice versa.
I can't tell you what the ideal distance to VP is, perhaps it is different for each of us. All I know is that I do use this technique (to a certain extent) to judge what speed I do into and through a corner. Especially on unfamiliar roads - if I don't know what to expect, I need some clues before I get there. The moving VP (relative to me) is a good one.

Works for me too. On unfamiliar and non highways I don't know how else you would judge your entry speed into a corner and when, if or how much to twist the wrist by. Of course it doesn't have much application if speed is low on these roads and legal speed is kept to most highways. Thanks MSTRS - for useful posts.

**reofix** · 7th February 2009, 22:13

line of sight to the vanishing point is hugely improved by NOT getting into a knee down position on the road... tilt head away from lean and enjoy the safety of an extra 20 metres visibility ahead

**Tony W** · 7th February 2009, 22:16

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Yes. Up to a point. After that, as you proceed into and through the corner, what was hidden by the curve will come into view at the same rate as your forward momentum. As long as the curve remains constant. If it tightens, then the VP will get closer to you. And vice versa.
I can't tell you what the ideal distance to VP is, perhaps it is different for each of us. All I know is that I do use this technique (to a certain extent) to judge what speed I do into and through a corner. Especially on unfamiliar roads - if I don't know what to expect, I need some clues before I get there. The moving VP (relative to me) is a good one.

Just got back from a ride to Wellington.

Some lovely Wairarapa backroads...

Tried to look for vanishing points conciously, but too much distraction from the art of riding.
I did note that I do look well ahead though, which is probably what "vanishing point " theory is all about.

I still have one issue with the VP doctrine, and it may just be one of semantics.

I dispute that the DISTANCE in metres, to the VP can change if you adjust your speed in the corner....UNLESS... what is meant, is that the TIME it takes to reach the VP changes as you adjust your speed in the corner.

**Tony W** · 7th February 2009, 22:26

Originally Posted by reofix

line of sight to the vanishing point is hugely improved by NOT getting into a knee down position on the road... tilt head away from lean and enjoy the safety of an extra 20 metres visibility ahead

OH YEAH !!!

Now there's a fulla who knows the tricks.

I do that, the crotch-rocket guys just wouldn't have a clue !

I hear you have finally volunteered to do some landscaping in the Rainbow ??????

**reofix** · 7th February 2009, 23:07

yeah right

**Sully60** · 8th February 2009, 01:07

Originally Posted by reofix

line of sight to the vanishing point is hugely improved by NOT getting into a knee down position on the road... tilt head away from lean and enjoy the safety of an extra 20 metres visibility ahead

Is that so the powdered aluminium from your valve cover dragging on the deck doesn't get in you eyes?

**MSTRS:Me** · 8th February 2009, 09:59

Originally Posted by Tony W

I dispute that the DISTANCE in metres, to the VP can change if you adjust your speed in the corner....UNLESS... what is meant, is that the TIME it takes to reach the VP changes as you adjust your speed in the corner.

You are probably correct in saying that. The distance in metres/time to reach determines your reaction time and distance covered whilst reacting.
Perhaps I perceive the VP getting closer if I speed up (but the corner remains constant in curvature) simply because I reach that VP quicker? Of course, the VP is still 'moving' ahead of me, so all an increased speed means is that I have less time before I enter unseen territory. Same is if the corner tightens. Either way I am receiving clues as to what decisions to make as regards my riding at that point.

**Tony W** · 8th February 2009, 10:50

Originally Posted by MSTRS

You are probably correct in saying that. The distance in metres/time to reach determines your reaction time and distance covered whilst reacting.
Perhaps I perceive the VP getting closer if I speed up (but the corner remains constant in curvature) simply because I reach that VP quicker? Of course, the VP is still 'moving' ahead of me, so all an increased speed means is that I have less time before I enter unseen territory. Same is if the corner tightens. Either way I am receiving clues as to what decisions to make as regards my riding at that point.

Now we're getting somewhere. I think I must have finally got onto the same page !

We must catch up, on a ride somewhere, soon.

Cheers.