How quickly it can go bad with an idiot cager in front...

**swbarnett** · 16th February 2009, 01:23

Originally Posted by Jiminy

Probably right in this instance, but it's easier to determine after the fact. You would have to start going left immediately, and it's not the most instinctive reaction. Plus, you don't know where the Civic will stop.

Indeed, isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

I was in this situation a few years back (allbeit in a cage). I was lucky; the car did a full 360 and carried on their merry way.

**Quailboy** · 16th February 2009, 01:38

It looks like the twit in the civic rips up the handbrake to me, as the back wheels start smoking before the front.

She had no way of telling where the car would end up so she could not possibly have changed course to the left under (presumedly) heavy braking.

And those people in her face telling her to lie down, she's already sitting up so WTF?

Very unlucky indeed.

**driftn** · 16th February 2009, 09:18

I hate that sound. It appears to me it was one of those shit happens, wrong place wrong time things. Nothing could be done. Oh and yes I would have punched the cock sucker that took me out in the face.

**SPman** · 16th February 2009, 12:36

into the path of an oncoming CBR600RR,

Her R1, actually - which wasn't too badly damaged and was repaired - happened 3-4 yrs ago...

**discotex** · 16th February 2009, 22:21

Reminds me a lot of my smash.

She didn't target fixate at all from what I can see. She looked for the gap and aimed for it. Unfortunately the gap disappeared and by that point the time left to brake hard was gone. Had she braked hard we might have watched the cars behind drive over her while the cage stayed in control in it's lane.

While going left was the only way out there's no way anyone would be expecting the car to come around like that in the 500ms you had to make the call. By the time the car looked like it was going all the way around it was too late.

Damned if you do or don't in this case really.

**samgab** · 16th February 2009, 23:28

Originally Posted by SPman

Her R1, actually - which wasn't too badly damaged and was repaired - happened 3-4 yrs ago...

Oops, you're exactly right, it was indeed a Yamaha YZF-R1.
It is Dawn, of SmoothCurvesRacing.com
http://www.smoothcurvesracing.com/home.php

http://www.smoothcurvesracing.com/fo...opic.php?t=303
It happened at 15:19 on Feb 10, 2006.

Isn't the internet an amazing thing!

**howdamnhard** · 17th February 2009, 00:21

Probably would have gunned it and gone for the gap,but thats only after I knew what was going to happen.Going left I doubt I could have changed direction enough to avoid whole side on cage.The righthand lane traffic was to slow,so not really an option.

**samgab** · 17th February 2009, 00:43

Originally Posted by howdamnhard

Probably would have gunned it and gone for the gap,but thats only after I knew what was going to happen.Going left I doubt I could have changed direction enough to avoid whole side on cage.The righthand lane traffic was to slow,so not really an option.

Dawn explains why she didn't go left:
"Why didn't you go left instead of right?
You say you would have gone to the left. In my mind - I was calm and collected the entire time. I've gone through worse than this. But go to the left? It's not my habit to go towards the source of danger. Yes, in hindsight now...and now that I see what the Honda did - that is the right choice *for this particular instance - now that we know what happens!!*. But I had no idea back then. I wasted precious split seconds trying to determine exactly where he was going to go and how best to react. It was very hard to determine - especially considering he was completely out of control. No one at that point knew where he would go and what would happen - so I headed away from the source of danger. Going towards it would land me closer to the center divider...and I really don't want any chance of going over that center divider and into oncoming traffic.

The biggest arguments for not going left is because:
1. it would have been the longest route to safety since I was in the #1 lane and the Honda was in the HOV lane.
2. all he had to do to stop locking his wheels is just let off the brake - how difficult is that? When calculating the odds – odds were that he would regain some kind of control over his vehicle if I just gave him the chance to do so.
3. if he was swerving to actually avoid something - do you really want to go towards whatever it was he was swerving to avoid?
4. if you're full blown set on going to the left, you better JAM on it to make it...and if he had completed his 180 sooner and hit you - you would most likely go flying in the direction your bike was heading. In other words...your body would be carried, through momentum, to the other side of the freeway. Now, I'm pretty tough - but there's no way my body would survive getting hit by oncoming traffic at full freeway speeds like that. There was no way to calculate/know that he was going to be swerving, at what rate he would be swerving at and at what angle. With so many unknowns, I think it would be more risky to go towards all those uncalculated risks than to aim for the known risks.
5. It's truly not likely to even work - he's swerving and rotating to the right - if you swerve to the left...chances are very likely for a head on collision.
6. There are even less outs to the left than to the right. Going to the left, you have one lane (HOV), a tiny shoulder, a cement wall, and the other side of the freeway.
To the right, you have several lanes and exits off the freeway - there are just more options. In THIS case, a car on the right blocked that off for me...but the theory still applies. I was hoping that that car would have swerved away from the danger as well, giving me more room to maneuver.
7. HOV was the fastest moving lane, to the right are the slower to slowest moving lanes...which do you think is better to go towards?"

**Mikkel** · 17th February 2009, 18:23

Having had another look I have to agree that, while it makes no sense whatsoever, it looks like a handbrake turn.
The car starts turning in before the tyre smoke is noticeable.
The front wheel doesn't seem to lock up at any point.
The front tyre appears to still be turned towards the right by the time the resolution of the video becomes good enough to see.
Low resolution means it's very difficult to discern whether the brake lights actually comes on.

It's just crazy really.

As for swerving left. While any post-analysis of the incident is bound to be founded in the clear light of hind-sight there is one thing that is very important: There was still time to swerve left at the time where it became apparent that the car had lost control and was headed towards the right. Even if the driver had recovered traction at this point he would, at the very least, have made a lanechange to his right.

**discotex** · 17th February 2009, 18:42

Originally Posted by Mikkel

There was still time to swerve left at the time where it became apparent that the car had lost control and was headed towards the right.

How do you figure that? It's bugger all time once it becomes clear the car is turning rather than just braking hard in a straight line and at that point she's already aiming right.

**howdamnhard** · 17th February 2009, 23:18

Yip I agree with Dawn's analysis.Left was not a good option.By the time it is evident that the car is swerving in it is blocking the left.The problem is that it is not only swerving left but is also slowing down rapidly reducing your options quickly.This is why I would try slip past as close as possible to the silver car on the right although this risks being squashed between the two.A good reason to always be in the right gear for the speed you are doing.
In all honesty I probably would have ended up just like Dawn,on my ass.

**Mikkel** · 17th February 2009, 23:34

Originally Posted by discotex

How do you figure that? It's bugger all time once it becomes clear the car is turning rather than just braking hard in a straight line and at that point she's already aiming right.

The car starts turning right before it starts braking, at no point does it appear to me that the car is going to be braking in a straight line (by braking I don't mean just "letting off the throttle and slowing down gently). Once the car has got any right-wards momentum a gap will inevitably present itself on the cars left hand side.

As for her having started aiming right - that's another mistake in my book. You can change position within your lane so quickly that starting to move right immediately only limits your options. Better to remain towards the left or middle of the lane and focus on braking hard to buy time. Since the car is effectively locking up it's tyres, hard braking (even on a bike yes) should slow you down faster than the car. It is however obvious very early on that it is inevitable that the car is going to end up in her lane - or even further towards the right. Since the way to the right is blocked, the only place where there's a certainty of an escape is the left (assuming that the car can't change into reverse and thus propel itself backwards into the lane from which it is coming).

As I said, this is of course easy to say in hind-sight - but it is the truth nonetheless. She didn't get hurt too bad, she's back on her bike - as such she didn't fuck it up, but she did hit the ground though.

**Mikkel** · 17th February 2009, 23:36

Originally Posted by howdamnhard

Yip I agree with Dawn's analysis.Left was not a good option.By the time it is evident that the car is swerving in it is blocking the left.The problem is that it is not only swerving left but is also slowing down rapidly reducing your options quickly.This is why I would try slip past as close as possible to the silver car on the right although this risks being squashed between the two.A good reason to always be in the right gear for the speed you are doing.
In all honesty I probably would have ended up just like Dawn,on my ass.

Surely you must mean right...