Rear brake usage? (track)

**AllanB** · 26th February 2009, 16:30

Pah, rear brakes.

Rear disk brakes IMO suck arse. I find they have a wooden 'WTF is going on back there?' feel at low speed (even hard to lock up at low speed) but when you require them in a high speed emergency the bastards lock-up the rear wheel.
Now a high speed emergency stop involves heaps of front brake and associated nose dive, thus a light rear end so the rear brake input is magnified.
I still claim you get better feel from a drum on the rear and consequently better control.

**CookMySock** · 26th February 2009, 16:35

Isn't the rear brake (or excess power) deliberately used to provoke oversteer to tighten a line? And the clutch deliberately left out (engaged) to prevent the rear from locking up when braking?

Shrug, jest askin..

Steve

**Rodney007** · 26th February 2009, 16:57

Originally Posted by Biggles08

not to mention....it ain't going to slow anything when its floating in the air!

Seriously tho, this is 100% correct. I'm sure once your motor skills are at such a high standard you can do everything else without thinking about it you may be able to achieve something of use by using the rear brake but to this point I have never touched it for the reason quoted above.

As TonyOK mentioned, it is helpful to ensure rear somersaults are avoided when getting front wheel lift from acceleration but as for assisting stopping...it is very little use I have found.

thanks for the input guys,

im not going stop using it as last two trackdays have gone well, with couple of shady moments when i had this problem,

i definatley feel it slowing the bike more and im not going to stop using it, yet practice with it and get better,

Originally Posted by R6_kid

You misunderstand, he's slowing the rear wheel down faster than the engine is braking, that is what is causing it to skid, nothing wrong with that, he just needs to feather the clutch to match the two speeds nicely through the gearbox to keep things in shape.

cheers for advice gareth .. think il go with that

**Racin Jason** · 26th February 2009, 20:00

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

Isn't the rear brake (or excess power) deliberately used to provoke oversteer to tighten a line? And the clutch deliberately left out (engaged) to prevent the rear from locking up when braking?

Shrug, jest askin..

Steve

Yes the rear brake is used to turn tighter when turning in, and to settle the back wheel over bumps. But leaving the clutch lever out will not stop lock ups, quite the opposite. The clutch needs to be slipped (slipper clutch does this for you) or the back wheel tries to lock and chadders. Listen to motogp, the clutch slips right to the apex.

To be honest I've never used the rear brake on a race track unless ive been off in the grass or something and i cant get hard on the front. The slipper clutch provides more usable rear braking power than any human could ever provide.
I think you would have to be really good (really really good) for the rear brake to make you any real gains.

Although i use rear brake on the road alot. because of the danger of locking the front on loose surfaces etc.

.

**Kevin G** · 26th February 2009, 20:46

Hell I remember a little known nobody called Mick Doohan who thought it was so unnecessary he went to all the trouble to make a thumb operated rear brake for his 500cc GP machine when he smashed up his leg/ankle so bad he could not use the foot version....also even today Brembo still make a thumb operated rear brake option.

**k14** · 26th February 2009, 20:55

Originally Posted by Kevin G

Hell I remember a little known nobody called Mick Doohan who thought it was so unnecessary he went to all the trouble to make a thumb operated rear brake for his 500cc GP machine when he smashed up his leg/ankle so bad he could not use the foot version....also even today Brembo still make a thumb operated rear brake option.

I was reading the other day that Niccolo Canepa (the team mate to Mika Kallio) has had to fit one to his GP9 because his feet are too big to be able to operate the foot brake.

It's horses for courses, for every great racer that swears by back brake you can bring up one who never used it. Foggarty is one who springs to mind, there are countless others who you can probably find if you look hard enough. Its up to the individual, do whatever feels most comfortable for you.

**Sully60** · 26th February 2009, 21:00

Originally Posted by Kevin G

Hell I remember a little known nobody called Mick Doohan who thought it was so unnecessary he went to all the trouble to make a thumb operated rear brake for his 500cc GP machine when he smashed up his leg/ankle so bad he could not use the foot version....also even today Brembo still make a thumb operated rear brake option.

Doohan didn't really use the rear brake much for slowing down though.

**Maido** · 26th February 2009, 23:09

I never use the rear brake on the track

**Biggles08** · 27th February 2009, 07:00

Originally Posted by Racin Jason

Yes the rear brake is used to turn tighter when turning in, and to settle the back wheel over bumps. But leaving the clutch lever out will not stop lock ups, quite the opposite. The clutch needs to be slipped (slipper clutch does this for you) or the back wheel tries to lock and chadders. Listen to motogp, the clutch slips right to the apex.

To be honest I've never used the rear brake on a race track unless ive been off in the grass or something and i cant get hard on the front. The slipper clutch provides more usable rear braking power than any human could ever provide.
I think you would have to be really good (really really good) for the rear brake to make you any real gains.

Although i use rear brake on the road alot. because of the danger of locking the front on loose surfaces etc.

.

Could not have said it better!

**CookMySock** · 27th February 2009, 07:20

Awesome detail. Thanks fellas. Yeah it makes sense to use both in slippery or loose road conditions.

Steve

**kittytamer** · 27th February 2009, 07:21

Originally Posted by Morcs

But according to Raj, Moto GP riders etc... dont touch their rear brakes! at all!

lols

Moto GP rider DO use rear brake. In fact Nicky Hayden has an extra large rear disc because he uses so much. He is the exception rather than the rule though.
I used to use the rear brake on track, but as I get quicker and brake harder no longer use it at all (rear tyre in the air - a la Biggles - and my R6 has a slipper clutch which sorts the rear out for corner entry). On the road, however, I use it all the time.

**vifferman** · 27th February 2009, 08:56

Originally Posted by kittytamer

Nicky Hayden has an extra large rear disc because he uses so much.

Nicky Hayden started off in flat-track racing, so he is used to sliding the rear tyre, and 'backing it in'. He's also an expert Supermotard rider.

**Biggles08** · 27th February 2009, 09:28

Originally Posted by vifferman

so he is used to sliding the rear tyre, and 'backing it in'.

With a slipper clutch though you need no rear brake as it semi locks up if you change down hard and late enough as your braking hard on the front and tipping into the corner....so ends up 'backing it in' without rear brakes.