NZ road racing in serious trouble

[lostinflyz]

Thanks for the constructive input. How does it harm you if some of us decide to improve the presentation at the track? How does it harm anything?

i meant not to put down. im not arguing the harm, but does it add anything. if you feel this is wat needs doing, do it. i merely presented my own opinion.

[mikeey01]

Whoops, I see where I went wrong in my previous post...
I hadn't listed them in any order.

I'm asking..... Can the present problems be put down to any one of these?

So I ask again...

What is your take on the real problem?
a. Lack of competitors
b. Lack on Sponsors
c. Lack of Spectators

[Brian d marge]

Churr. I've seen the plastic stuff that is the same as what the real estate signs are made of. Durable and easy to print on. My ideas aren't as ambitious as those in the pictures. It's all on once I hit F2 though.

there you go ..just nick a few real estate signs ... ....

and to those who say looking good isn't important ........

yes......... it doesn't make the bike go faster , but it does attract the money.... Racing in some country's is a business , with large cash flows ... and Dell boys three wheeler doesn't cut it

Stephen

[Biggles08]

Trev - this is not aimed at you - rather it provided a good wider context for the wider subject. I just used your quote to open it out!! Though as an aside given the series of annual activities (something like 8 events at Puke this year, more at the buckets, Ellerslie Christmas parade, ongoing rider training, open every Thursday night in their own club rooms, videos, quiz evenings, inter club bbq's, involvement with Paeroa at an operational level) I'm a little lost by the "hibernation" comment.

Anyway, for wider amusement, introspection, whatever, here's some thoughts to think about:

Oxfords definition of "club" is (apart from those in relation things for hitting other things is " association of persons meeting periodically for shared activity"

I think many people see themselves divorced from the orgainsations they actually belong too. ie the AMCC, VMCC, Upper frankton CB500 cross dressers owners group, whatever. Ie there is an us and them mentality, with the expectation that the club "delivers to me" the stuff I want, but they don't actually see themslves as being part of it or making some of it happen. The strong clubs are the ones that the members have this shared mindset.

Essentially the riders ARE the club. It's not someone else, it's not an organisation or business I just source a product from (like say MOBIL). The key two words in the description above is "shared activity"

The club is not the committee members, IT IS THE WHOLE MEMBERSHIP. As has been previously stated here in this topic and others by various posters (Clivoris, SVS, PeteJ, Whitetrash are some I can think of) the clubs are usually hurting for man power to do this stuff. I guess you get out what you put in?

I see many ideas expoused here, good and bad. But you talk closely to many club officials they have these ideas thrown at them all the time (and about every 5 years, the all come around again) usually as "feeback" but essentially "opinion". But it all boils down in many cases to talk only.

The way forward? Opinion and feedback is all well and good, but it actually needs to translate into 2 other things to make any changes long term:
1) Bring a solution Ie xyz is the problem, but if we do it this way, the problem won't exist because abc will happen
2) bring man power to make it happen. Most of this stuff all takes time, epecially the promotional side. It also costs an awful lot of money. If you read AMCN and in particular Ken Wootton's monthly column he has been hammering away about organisation vs promotion. Some clubs are very good at orgainsing and running a meeting. They may not be promoting it however. I guess the difference is resource available. Financial or human.

The existing resource is always running out as people come and go from the committees that actually make stuff like race meetings happen. They don't get paid and they try to have a life also. Who will be stepping up when they go? Many of them feel bound to stay because so few people actually generally get involved. The poor suckers there are usually trapped, it's not that they won't let go, it's who is there to hand the reigns to? Many club Annual AGM's barely make a quorum, let alone have people fighting for a position at the "big table".

Remember they then have to answer to the same members I talk about above who have the us and them mentality as to why they lost $10,000 running a race meeting and get caned for it when the membership fees or whatver go up because the club can no longer afford to subsidise the operational costs and come and go requirements from accumulated funds.

Hampton: hmmm, I see many people advising cost being an issue to attending race meetings. Hamtpon hire costs I believe will be rather more expensive than the existing circuits which will only make the racing more expensive again, plus the number of people to run an event there is considerably larger also (again more cost in terms of "koha", lunches etc). How many clubs would be able to afford to run there regularly if their club series event w sthe price of the Ntionals are now? How much will the Nationals be if run there? It may be a great place when finished and I'm really looking forward to having a play there like everyone else, but at what $ cost?

Other quotes This one Mystic 13: "I notice on the list of motorcycle websites over at MNZ there is no AMCC. So what's going on between the two?"

There are 80-90 afiliated clubs in NZ. The list of links to the clubs is approx 15 long. There must be about 65 that are missing.

Problem? None I'd say. Just one of ther overworked, unpaid volunteers from the AMCC probably doesn't know it's not up or if they do, they have more urgent things they have to deal with like running a club and creating a national round, running a club series, multiple training days, Paeroa etc that they do every year for the members.

Maybe they have asked and MNZ haven't done it (waiting for the next set of work in that area of the website?)- who knows? Is it really an issue? Is there any inference you are alluding to??

Malcy you make some very valid points that I agree with.....BUT.....there is always a but....to put another slant/perspective on what you have said here we need to remember that some (probably the majority) of these club members like me are here to race and that was 100% the reson of joining a club. For me personally, I am a member of AMCC for no other reason than MNZ said I had to join 'a club' to get my race licence. I have no attachment to my club appart from this. All this being said, I would love to have some personal attachment to AMCC which would give me some sense of pride and involvment but this simply is not the case.

Now I can only talk from personal experience here, but as a Noobie racer I have found the powers that be in AMCC are very intolerant to new suggestions of improvement. I'm not talking massive projects here, more so small 'tweaks' to make things run smoother and more effeciently. I have suggested transponders are made mandaory at every race meeting but was told club members wouldn't like the extra cost...BOLLOCKS! I am a poor club member with no spare cash in my back pocket and would happily pay extra for compulsory transponder hirage if the fiasco that was AMCC Round 2 was never repeated again (long story...not for here). When you are paying around $85 for a race day meet (plus tires, fuel/oil etc), an extra $30 to ensure accurate laps is a no brainer).

My point is, I added relevant input that needed very little time to implement and was immediatly confronted with irrelevant, illogical, inaccurate block walls as soon as I suggested a possible solution (which I still believe is the answer) thus making me feel 'detached' as a club member. It seems that it has become a viscious cycle of complaining club members and defending club managers that has got to a point where sanity fails to prevail.

Heres my take on it (and I'm not wanting to insult anyone here), I believe it may be time for a move to 'change the guard' at AMCC stratigy level. I'm not suggesting the entire management is kicked to the curb because they do a great job at organizing events etc....I'm saying new blood 'appears' to be required in the stratigic, directional level of the club...new thinking is required for the future. Surely there are people currently in AMCC that have been involved for quite some time biting at the bit to get more say and involvment in this area that could be looked at?

As a racer, I agree with a lot of what has been said on here regarding 'looking professional' and have been doing my best to do exactly that. To be a professional race team, you need to act like one and part of that is in the appearence of both your machine and pit area. We as riders do need to lift our game and look sharper. I'm desperately trying to get a sponsor on board at the moment for myself and another rider with a similar concept to what Chop and Ed have done...its a hard sell but I believe it is the responsibility of us racers to do this side of things to support whatever club we belong to. I'm not interested in organizing the race meets and marshalling etc that other AMCC club members do a great job at...thats not my skill set, I want to race! I do appreciate all the hard work AMCC club members do for me and I'm really not trying to have a go at any of you...I'm talking direction here...AMCC head needs a new direction implimented for things to slowly get better. Change is good....in fact it happens all the time and seems AMCC havent moved forward with some changes that they should have (my race numbers are perfectly legible and I am not changing them out of principle!).

Biggles08

[Clivoris]

Whoops, I see where I went wrong in my previous post...
I hadn't listed them in any order.

I'm asking..... Can the present problems be put down to any one of these?

So I ask again...

What is your take on the real problem?
a. Lack of competitors
b. Lack on Sponsors
c. Lack of Spectators

They are all connected. One leads to the other...to the other etc. Also, in my opinion, worrying about what started the cycle is far less important than thinking about how to break it.

[sinfull]

Whoops, I see where I went wrong in my previous post...
I hadn't listed them in any order.

I'm asking..... Can the present problems be put down to any one of these?

So I ask again...

What is your take on the real problem?
a. Lack of competitors
b. Lack on Sponsors
c. Lack of Spectators

My take on things is b = a which = c
someone was saying the car racing attracts the crowds, yes but half the spectators there, are there to see carnage and they usually do !
No one in bike racing wants carnage, no one ! So half the spectators may not show up cause there is a lack of crash flips or rolls !

I say again give em something to see along with the quality racing that is there already ! A lunch time show maybe, don't have to be big to start with !
Tony ? You into some wheely practice ? Who else is into some stunt practice ? Won't take long for the word to get out and we all know what show offs riders are, ppl will be queing up to do some stunts, and in turn the spectators will hear of it and come (albeit with a morbid curiosity)
Would the commitee be into something like that for a vic round Clive ?
I for one would put a yellow vest on for i donno, crowd controll, carry an extinguisher, whatever ! So the race marshalls can have a break from their posts !

b = a lack of corporate sponsers for the little guys makes it hard to attend many events apart from their local right ?
Why not make an example out of what Ed and Chop have ? Ed has been pumping LG since they came on board for him and good on them ! Their Pit looks good because of corporate sponsership !
I for one will put my hand up and lend these guys a hand to market LG (as best i can) Why not make LG go "wow cool" . At the same time other corporates may go "wow look at LG's name out there at these bike races, mmmmm not bad advertising" Next time some sap like me walks in to their office and asks for a lil help, the name LG will flash up in their head and they might say yeah we'll help !

c = Who can make up some A frame signs like Phill suggested, Half a doz signs (i for one will find room for one in my van to drop at a strategic intersection)
ED, Chop ? Good chance to get LGs name up on the corner of the boards Guys !!!

LG
SUPERBIKES

---------->>>>>>>>>>

[malcy25]

Malcy you make some very valid points that I agree with.....BUT.....there is always a but....to put another slant/perspective on what you have said here we need to remember that some (probably the majority) of these club members like me are here to race and that was 100% the reson of joining a club. For me personally, I am a member of AMCC for no other reason than MNZ said I had to join 'a club' to get my race licence. I have no attachment to my club appart from this. All this being said, I would love to have some personal attachment to AMCC which would give me some sense of pride and involvment but this simply is not the case.

Now I can only talk from personal experience here, but as a Noobie racer I have found the powers that be in AMCC are very intolerant to new suggestions of improvement. I'm not talking massive projects here, more so small 'tweaks' to make things run smoother and more effeciently. I have suggested transponders are made mandaory at every race meeting but was told club members wouldn't like the extra cost...BOLLOCKS! I am a poor club member with no spare cash in my back pocket and would happily pay extra for compulsory transponder hirage if the fiasco that was AMCC Round 2 was never repeated again (long story...not for here). When you are paying around $85 for a race day meet (plus tires, fuel/oil etc), an extra $30 to ensure accurate laps is a no brainer).

My point is, I added relevant input that needed very little time to implement and was immediatly confronted with irrelevant, illogical, inaccurate block walls as soon as I suggested a possible solution (which I still believe is the answer) thus making me feel 'detached' as a club member. It seems that it has become a viscious cycle of complaining club members and defending club managers that has got to a point where sanity fails to prevail.

Heres my take on it (and I'm not wanting to insult anyone here), I believe it may be time for a move to 'change the guard' at AMCC stratigy level. I'm not suggesting the entire management is kicked to the curb because they do a great job at organizing events etc....I'm saying new blood 'appears' to be required in the stratigic, directional level of the club...new thinking is required for the future. Surely there are people currently in AMCC that have been involved for quite some time biting at the bit to get more say and involvment in this area that could be looked at?

As a racer, I agree with a lot of what has been said on here regarding 'looking professional' and have been doing my best to do exactly that. To be a professional race team, you need to act like one and part of that is in the appearence of both your machine and pit area. We as riders do need to lift our game and look sharper. I'm desperately trying to get a sponsor on board at the moment for myself and another rider with a similar concept to what Chop and Ed have done...its a hard sell but I believe it is the responsibility of us racers to do this side of things to support whatever club we belong to. I'm not interested in organizing the race meets and marshalling etc that other AMCC club members do a great job at...thats not my skill set, I want to race! I do appreciate all the hard work AMCC club members do for me and I'm really not trying to have a go at any of you...I'm talking direction here...AMCC head needs a new direction implimented for things to slowly get better. Change is good....in fact it happens all the time and seems AMCC havent moved forward with some changes that they should have (my race numbers are perfectly legible and I am not changing them out of principle!).

Biggles08

Biggles

Sorry if my reply is brief - I have a full day at work and spannering bikes at night for the nationals.

Changing of the Guard: Reread my post. I answered your comment already. There are not hoards of people champing at the bit to have a go otherwise they would be there already It's usually a shit fight to find enough to staff the committees each year and a number of clubs have had to cancel and reset their AGM's because not enough people bothered to turn up. They are all too busy only getting their licence and buggering off again. You have just reconfirmed my comment about peoples involvement re join the club for a race licence. I suppose being blunt, you get out of it what you put in. You join the club for a licence, and do nothing else, should you expect much in return?

There are too many people at too many clubs around the country who sit on the sidelines saying do I want you to do this for me...no, do this for me....hang, no I want YOu to do this for me.

Re timing Equipment - Scrivy has already comments elsewhere on the accuracy of the Mark Time System and the cost effectiveness (He was the back up timing system for the Hamilton 400 so he know's his stuff, plus I know riders who have on board timing systems and cannot believe how accurately they match). I fail to understand what your underlying issue is. What exactly would a transponder system provide over the Services that Mark Time does? Regards the cost, weren't you saying a while back that you can't afford to race, yet now another $30 each meeting is fine?

Intolerance: Reread my comment about ideas rolling around every 5 years. Many have been tried and discarded a few times. Not saying there are not new ideas. But I'm sure the guys running events would like to see them.

I think more riders need to (wo)man up and actually get involved. Many of the road race committee at the AMCC I see are racers already so you can sit on both sides.

But until riders actually step up and start actually get involved in the hands on management and direction of the sport at local and whatever other level, and not just sit on the sidelines, nothing will change. Forum comment is just forum comment, it doesn't drive action until someone actually does something. This not an only AMCC problem this can and will be played out all over the country at any number of active clubs.

Clubs are like Governments which in NZ are a democracy - but you get what you nominate and vote for. You want to change the guard? By all means, I'm sure you will be most welcomed if you turn up at the AGM in June and ask to be nominated for a position on a committee, I doubt there will be an issue to find a seconder.

Your race numbers: Get over it. Is an MNZ rule. It exists for amnay reasons. But I'm running out of time to answer sorry.

By the way, whilst I'm a member of the AMCC (and 3 other clubs from memory), I'm not on any committee with the AMCC or any of the others. But I have been and I have seen the other side and dealt with prima donna riders. I was one of those too until I stopped racing and did a few years on a committee helping. Saw a whole different world....

[Tony.OK]

Tony ? You into some wheely practice ?

Now Bill you should know that wheelies are neither big nor clever

Promoting such dangerous behaviour only leads to trouble...........or constantly getting told off hahaaa

I remember 5 or so years ago going to my 1st race as a spectator, it was a PMCC round I think on the old Taupo track.......they had a wheelie/burnout display in the lunch break by any racer that wanted to show off.
During one burnout some chicks hangin over the fence liftin her top up to show the racers her headlights........................................ ..................................we need more of that!!!

[Shaun]

VMCC has been asking for people to step up and sort this thing for years! The ideas aren't new. But when you only have 2 or 3 core people organising the series (who all have full time jobs) then some other people are needed to set up the 'event' side of things. Working till 2am just to get the actual racing setup and late entries sorted was enough for me to throw in the towel.

When I was secretary I tried getting shops onboard for merchandising and display stands but see how many actually turned up and ran a stand? None. Tried getting people to put out signs the day before "Motorbike racing this way -->" sort of thing, but again real life and real jobs got in the way.

The ideas are there. The clubs have the experience and knowledge with running the racing side of things. If you want to promote an event - make it easier on yourself and rock on up to a club and offer to do it. I'm pretty sure VMCC would jump at the chance. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...42&postcount=4)

Have some one from the club contact me mate, I may be able to help now that I am not a racer myself any more, and do have a lot of experience with this sport, and lots of passion for it, it may even be usefull towards a buisness marketing degree I have started

[Biggles08]

Biggles

Sorry if my reply is brief - I have a full day at work and spannering bikes at night for the nationals.

Changing of the Guard: Reread my post. I answered your comment already. There are not hoards of people champing at the bit to have a go otherwise they would be there already It's usually a shit fight to find enough to staff the committees each year and a number of clubs have had to cancel and reset their AGM's because not enough people bothered to turn up. They are all too busy only getting their licence and buggering off again. You have just reconfirmed my comment about peoples involvement re join the club for a race licence. I suppose being blunt, you get out of it what you put in. You join the club for a licence, and do nothing else, should you expect much in return?

There are too many people at too many clubs around the country who sit on the sidelines saying do I want you to do this for me...no, do this for me....hang, no I want YOu to do this for me.

Re timing Equipment - Scrivy has already comments elsewhere on the accuracy of the Mark Time System and the cost effectiveness (He was the back up timing system for the Hamilton 400 so he know's his stuff, plus I know riders who have on board timing systems and cannot believe how accurately they match). I fail to understand what your underlying issue is. What exactly would a transponder system provide over the Services that Mark Time does? Regards the cost, weren't you saying a while back that you can't afford to race, yet now another $30 each meeting is fine?

Intolerance: Reread my comment about ideas rolling around every 5 years. Many have been tried and discarded a few times. Not saying there are not new ideas. But I'm sure the guys running events would like to see them.

I think more riders need to (wo)man up and actually get involved. Many of the road race committee at the AMCC I see are racers already so you can sit on both sides.

But until riders actually step up and start actually get involved in the hands on management and direction of the sport at local and whatever other level, and not just sit on the sidelines, nothing will change. Forum comment is just forum comment, it doesn't drive action until someone actually does something. This not an only AMCC problem this can and will be played out all over the country at any number of active clubs.

Clubs are like Governments which in NZ are a democracy - but you get what you nominate and vote for. You want to change the guard? By all means, I'm sure you will be most welcomed if you turn up at the AGM in June and ask to be nominated for a position on a committee, I doubt there will be an issue to find a seconder.

Your race numbers: Get over it. Is an MNZ rule. It exists for amnay reasons. But I'm running out of time to answer sorry.

By the way, whilst I'm a member of the AMCC (and 3 other clubs from memory), I'm not on any committee with the AMCC or any of the others. But I have been and I have seen the other side and dealt with prima donna riders. I was one of those too until I stopped racing and did a few years on a committee helping. Saw a whole different world....

lol....well that was quite the reply Malcy for not having any time .

I guess you may be right in that no one is 'biting at the bit' to take over but I'm pretty sure this is due to people throwing thier hands up in the air and saying "bugger this I'm off!"

I'm not 100% sure if your calling me a pre maddona or not but I hope not. My post was supposed to be supportive for the future rather than dwelling on the mistakes that have been done in the past. I wasn't wanting to raise the issue of time keeping again it was merely an example of how I felt about the response I got when trying to give my input directly to AMCC.

At the end of the day I'm not going to appologize for how I feel about my involvment in AMCC or lack thereof...READ MY POST AGAIN I only joined to get my license...and in fact, I may join another club after my membership expires...thats my choice and perogative. Instead of writing me off as another whining rider who doesn't want to get involved, how about listening to me and trying to keep me as a member (not you personally but I'm refering to the general attitude of AMCC that I have experienced).

I will lay my cards on the table too....I have absolutley no axe to grind with AMCC prior to joining. I've got nothing to gain from spinning lies or bad mouthing them. Everything I have suggested has been in 'club spirit' yet why now am I so annoyed at them???? Thats the question AMCC should be addressing as opposed to rolling thier eyes up and ignoring their members.

I won't buy your whole "If you don't like it, get in and change it" argument because thats unfortunately not the way the modern world works. As I see it, some people are cut out for organizing shit and getting people together to come up with the goods for well run race days....I'm not one of those people Malcy...In fact, I would go as far to say I would probably find it hard to organize a piss up in a brewry! Should that negate my opinion when it comes to suggestions to improve???? I think not. As you mentioned in todays world, democracy is the ruling form...imagine if EVERYONE who was unhappy with the Government decided they could do it better and entered government....I think 122 MP's is more than enough thanks! lol

I realize thats an extreme example but the principle is the same...we have club leaders, club organizers and managers and I'm not whining about any of them....get that point...they do a great job and I don't envy them...but for you to suggest that anyone who is unhappy with anything should 'put up or shut up' is IMHO ludicrous!

Remember the reason any motorcycle club exists is for the motorcyclists....and because of the MNZ rules the mojority (possibly anyway...at least for me in this case) of them are members merely so they can hold a race license....rightly or wrongly this is the case Malcy so complaining to people like me about not being involved more is wasted energy....how about listening instead and giving me reasons why my suggestions are not fesible (once again not you personally rather AMCC management) rather than slagging off PMCC because I mentioned I enjoyed PMCC R1 so much better than AMCC R2 - Solely because they had transponders!!!

I'll respond to your comment about afforability of the hirage, but if you read my post again I'm sure you will understand why I would be happy to pay $30 more for accurate times. You try telling half the clubmans feild in AMCC R2 that the timing was accurate...some guys had DNS, DNF (when they did) and apparently some crashed and got lapped but yet still bet people who didn't crash???? I had pole position in clubmans but started 3 from the back of both Pre 89's and Clubmans?????? Go figure that Malcy! Did I feel like I got my moneys worth that day...Absolutely NOT!
Most of these problems would have disappeared had we had transponders...NO QUESTION!

Its not a matter of posting suggestions on here and leaving it at that I realize, but I have told AMCC what I think and have basically been told it won't work with no explanation as to why. I got told riders wouldn't front up with the extra cost....but hang on...I'm a rider and I would. All the entrys into PMCC R1 did (And it was on a tiny track at taupo - Track 3) and it was a full field....so nope...not a good enough reason...give me another! I believe their is some politicing going on between AMCC and the guys who hire the transponders but thats just a feeling I get from some comments that have been made...but I would be VERY annoyed if that were the case because that directly affects my racing.

Anyway, got to go do some tinkering of myself for the Nats this weekend...come say hi if you get the chance Malcy

Biggles08

[scrivy]

I remember 5 or so years ago going to my 1st race as a spectator, it was a PMCC round I think on the old Taupo track.......they had a wheelie/burnout display in the lunch break by any racer that wanted to show off.
During one burnout some chicks hangin over the fence liftin her top up to show the racers her headlights........................................ ..................................we need more of that!!!

I understand it was the dodgy buggars that run the Taupo Road Race Spectacular back in '04...........
It was actually the girlfriend of one of the racers!!!!! Lance Love??
Was a laugh though........
er, wouldn't see that happen again though......

[Tony.OK]

I understand it was the dodgy buggars that run the Taupo Road Race Spectacular back in '04...........
It was actually the girlfriend of one of the racers!!!!! Lance Love??
Was a laugh though........
er, wouldn't see that happen again though......

Buggar...................I've been trying do do wheelies all season hoping I'd see some jigglies somewhere........................best I've done so far is seen Frenchy's chicken legs instead of these

[malcy25]

lol....well that was quite the reply Malcy for not having any time .

I guess you may be right in that no one is 'biting at the bit' to take over but I'm pretty sure this is due to people throwing thier hands up in the air and saying "bugger this I'm off!"

I'm not 100% sure if your calling me a pre maddona or not but I hope not. My post was supposed to be supportive for the future rather than dwelling on the mistakes that have been done in the past. I wasn't wanting to raise the issue of time keeping again it was merely an example of how I felt about the response I got when trying to give my input directly to AMCC.

At the end of the day I'm not going to appologize for how I feel about my involvment in AMCC or lack thereof...READ MY POST AGAIN I only joined to get my license...and in fact, I may join another club after my membership expires...thats my choice and perogative. Instead of writing me off as another whining rider who doesn't want to get involved, how about listening to me and trying to keep me as a member (not you personally but I'm refering to the general attitude of AMCC that I have experienced).

I will lay my cards on the table too....I have absolutley no axe to grind with AMCC prior to joining. I've got nothing to gain from spinning lies or bad mouthing them. Everything I have suggested has been in 'club spirit' yet why now am I so annoyed at them???? Thats the question AMCC should be addressing as opposed to rolling thier eyes up and ignoring their members.

I won't buy your whole "If you don't like it, get in and change it" argument because thats unfortunately not the way the modern world works. As I see it, some people are cut out for organizing shit and getting people together to come up with the goods for well run race days....I'm not one of those people Malcy...In fact, I would go as far to say I would probably find it hard to organize a piss up in a brewry! Should that negate my opinion when it comes to suggestions to improve???? I think not. As you mentioned in todays world, democracy is the ruling form...imagine if EVERYONE who was unhappy with the Government decided they could do it better and entered government....I think 122 MP's is more than enough thanks! lol

I realize thats an extreme example but the principle is the same...we have club leaders, club organizers and managers and I'm not whining about any of them....get that point...they do a great job and I don't envy them...but for you to suggest that anyone who is unhappy with anything should 'put up or shut up' is IMHO ludicrous!

Remember the reason any motorcycle club exists is for the motorcyclists....and because of the MNZ rules the mojority (possibly anyway...at least for me in this case) of them are members merely so they can hold a race license....rightly or wrongly this is the case Malcy so complaining to people like me about not being involved more is wasted energy....how about listening instead and giving me reasons why my suggestions are not fesible (once again not you personally rather AMCC management) rather than slagging off PMCC because I mentioned I enjoyed PMCC R1 so much better than AMCC R2 - Solely because they had transponders!!!

I'll respond to your comment about afforability of the hirage, but if you read my post again I'm sure you will understand why I would be happy to pay $30 more for accurate times. You try telling half the clubmans feild in AMCC R2 that the timing was accurate...some guys had DNS, DNF (when they did) and apparently some crashed and got lapped but yet still bet people who didn't crash???? I had pole position in clubmans but started 3 from the back of both Pre 89's and Clubmans?????? Go figure that Malcy! Did I feel like I got my moneys worth that day...Absolutely NOT!
Most of these problems would have disappeared had we had transponders...NO QUESTION!

Its not a matter of posting suggestions on here and leaving it at that I realize, but I have told AMCC what I think and have basically been told it won't work with no explanation as to why. I got told riders wouldn't front up with the extra cost....but hang on...I'm a rider and I would. All the entrys into PMCC R1 did (And it was on a tiny track at taupo - Track 3) and it was a full field....so nope...not a good enough reason...give me another! I believe their is some politicing going on between AMCC and the guys who hire the transponders but thats just a feeling I get from some comments that have been made...but I would be VERY annoyed if that were the case because that directly affects my racing.

Anyway, got to go do some tinkering of myself for the Nats this weekend...come say hi if you get the chance Malcy

Biggles08

I'm sure we'll have divergent though processes till the end....

if I get a chance between keeping 2 bikes running I may come find you - I can type fast, but talking face to face is easier.

[svs]

Have some one from the club contact me mate, I may be able to help now that I am not a racer myself any more, and do have a lot of experience with this sport, and lots of passion for it, it may even be usefull towards a buisness marketing degree I have started

Hey Clivoris - give shaun a call!

[scrivy]

Buggar...................I've been trying do do wheelies all season hoping I'd see some jigglies somewhere........................best I've done so far is seen Frenchy's chicken legs instead of ......

Er........... yeah, well, um, OK.
I think Frenchys legs are firmer........................