Nuke power for NZ?

[cliffy]

yeeeaahh! we should be nuke powered, cos then we could use stewart island as the propeller and go tearin round the pacific on the south island wavin at the aussies as we go :spudwave: (and they'll never catch us!, have you seen the size of the place, it'd be faar to slow!)

[Skyryder]

Pebble bed reactors are where it's at. It's pretty fricken safe and efficient and doesn't pollute the environment.

Don't just take my word for it though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor

So what happens with the Nuc. wast??

Skyryder

[moko]

We have nuke power and the scariest bit is the human factor.I used to work in the place that made the fuel-rods for Britain`s AGR reactors and there were several fuck-ups that would have been a major scandal if someone had tipped off the press.We were supplying them out of spec for months because some clown was cost-cutting(at our end)and changed the spec without informing the customer.Their quality control basically was turning up at work and reading books e.t.c.,the press caught that one but not the fact that it was our defective(though probably not dangerous)cock-up that caught them out.Someone found it and back-tracked,they had 3 months worth of our work laying about and it was all crap,how long it had been going into the reactors is anyone`s guess.all should have been checked by their Q.C when it entered the plants.
There`s a leukaemia cluster around the Sellafield re-processing plant despite the government refusing to acknowledge it while banning fishing in the area.They had a major nuke accident in 1958 and covered it up.
I live next to the Navy dockyard in Devonport and tritium is pumped directly into the river.This is at 500 times the previous legal limit(it`s banned in the U.S.) but the law was changed AFTER they started pumping the shit into it.There are 6 redundant nuke subs laying there rotting away and the Navy admit they havn`t got a clue where to put them or what to do with them.
Apart from anything else the cost of de-commissioning these things when they end their useful life is horrendous,France have admitted that they cant afford the cost of de-commissioning theres,interesting.A few years back there was a drought in France and the press latched on to the minor detail that most of their nuke stations are by the side of rivers for cooling............which were drying up fast.that time they got lucky.The fallout from Chernobyl may well have been years ago but we got hit by and quietly farmers got paid to destroy stock in certain areas.We get a lot of kids over here from Chernobyl,Brits pay for them to come over for holidays because they dont have much of a life.they visit local schools and get well-looked after and entertained,to put it bluntly they`re then sent back to die,nothing anyone can do but give them a good time for a while because they`re already dead,just a matter of time.
Something else the media failed to report,when the Pan Am 747 came down in Lockerbie it landed about 10 ks away from the nuclear power-station at Annan.Whether that was a fluke or the intention if it had hit(and it`s a massive place)then it would have claimed a whole lot moe victims than 9/11 over the years.

[TwoSeven]

Nuke power is clean and safe when its 'in operation' but not when it isnt. There is a problem with getting rid of the waste. Something they dont tell you about the nuke operating cost, is that getting rid of waste cost 10 times more than running the plant.

The other thing is that nuke plants only run for a small amount of time, about 25 years and after that you can never again (for the rest of time as far as we are concerned) use the ground it was built on.

Britain and France are removing all of their plance - for the UK I think the last two are not far from being commisioned. No more will be built in the UK after these two go.

The reason why is that the UK is now getting more and more of its power from renewable energy sources such as wind and sea (especially sea). NZ is just waking up to this, but still has a protected industry, so it will be a good 10 years before we re-invent the lightbulb so to speak (we are way behind the world in electrical generation capability).

If you want to upset a labour politician, ask them how much money the government spends developing wage generation capability - the answer is none, and next to none (in real terms) for wind generation - since most of it is privately funded.

I wouldnt even bother with asking why people are still prevented from generating their own power (you can, but you cannot also be connected into the grid), yet in the states, you can get credits for doing so.

[Timber020]

Modern Nuke stations have a lifespan of up to 40 years with current technology, will probably get better with time. One 2cm pellet of nuke fuel puts out the same power as 1.5 tonnes of coal. More radioactivity can be released burning coal. And the water can be cooled, you just have to process it and burn a bit of power to run coolers.

I dont think its a perfect solution but considering the alternatives I cant see NZ getting ahead with our current strategies of ruining our rivers and landscape and air with stop gap power solutions.

[Kickaha]

I wouldnt even bother with asking why people are still prevented from generating their own power (you can, but you cannot also be connected into the grid), yet in the states, you can get credits for doing so.

I don't think thats correct,just today there was an article in the press about a guy who powers his own place with a wind turbine he bought second hand out of Europe and the excess is fed back into the national grid

[Blakamin]

good to see not everyone here lives in the 80's and the "no nukes" bullshit that put NZ at least a coupla years behind the rest of the third world....\


another thing is coal mining machinery and the deaths it causes...
an ex-o -mines-father works at one of aussies biggest coal burning plants... they have some cool numbers on the people dying breathing the dust... and these steam generators (same as nuke) are water cooled... people swim all year round in a snowy pond called hazlewood

Victoria’s season kicks off on October 23 with the annual swim in the warm waters of Hazlewood Pondage at Morwell. If you haven’t swum in the cooling tank of a power station before, here is your chance. The pondage looks like any other lake, it can be calm or rough, and the courses are all a loop, larger loop for the longer distances. Take advantage of this rare opportunity in Victoria to swim without a wettie. The water should be reasonably warm, in the low twenties, or at least not as cold as the ocean at this time of year, but maybe not quite as warm as your local pool. The free soup afterwards is always welcome.

or


pretty huh... 1970's technology at its worst... should see it on a day its running...
http://www.peoplesvoice.gov.au/stori.../morwell_c.htm


and my mum was a teacher in a school here but read what happened to it...

[Skyryder]

We have nuke power and the scariest bit is the human factor.I used to work in the place that made the fuel-rods for Britain`s AGR reactors and there were several fuck-ups that would have been a major scandal if someone had tipped off the press.We were supplying them out of spec for months because some clown was cost-cutting(at our end)and changed the spec without informing the customer.Their quality control basically was turning up at work and reading books e.t.c.,the press caught that one but not the fact that it was our defective(though probably not dangerous)cock-up that caught them out.Someone found it and back-tracked,they had 3 months worth of our work laying about and it was all crap,how long it had been going into the reactors is anyone`s guess.all should have been checked by their Q.C when it entered the plants.
There`s a leukaemia cluster around the Sellafield re-processing plant despite the government refusing to acknowledge it while banning fishing in the area.They had a major nuke accident in 1958 and covered it up.
I live next to the Navy dockyard in Devonport and tritium is pumped directly into the river.This is at 500 times the previous legal limit(it`s banned in the U.S.) but the law was changed AFTER they started pumping the shit into it.There are 6 redundant nuke subs laying there rotting away and the Navy admit they havn`t got a clue where to put them or what to do with them.
Apart from anything else the cost of de-commissioning these things when they end their useful life is horrendous,France have admitted that they cant afford the cost of de-commissioning theres,interesting.A few years back there was a drought in France and the press latched on to the minor detail that most of their nuke stations are by the side of rivers for cooling............which were drying up fast.that time they got lucky.The fallout from Chernobyl may well have been years ago but we got hit by and quietly farmers got paid to destroy stock in certain areas.We get a lot of kids over here from Chernobyl,Brits pay for them to come over for holidays because they dont have much of a life.they visit local schools and get well-looked after and entertained,to put it bluntly they`re then sent back to die,nothing anyone can do but give them a good time for a while because they`re already dead,just a matter of time.
Something else the media failed to report,when the Pan Am 747 came down in Lockerbie it landed about 10 ks away from the nuclear power-station at Annan.Whether that was a fluke or the intention if it had hit(and it`s a massive place)then it would have claimed a whole lot moe victims than 9/11 over the years.

Good post Moko. Didn't know about the Lockerbie connection to Nuke Reactor. There is a slow movement here that is about to begin in the promotion of nuclea energy for New Zealand. Has not taken off yet but it's in the works. Next power crisis and you just wait and see the pro nuke lobby get into gear.

Skyryder

[Wonko]

And the water can be cooled, you just have to process it and burn a bit of power to run coolers.

Requires more energy to use power to cool the water than was generated by the plant.

[Blakamin]

how about http://www.loyyangpower.com.au/index.html
go to "what we do" "mining facts" (sorry, cant link).... guess what...coal burning plants need water too
pretty pictures huh???

used to live there...
check this....

Output - up to 3600 tonnes of coal per hour

or this is cool too

Age of coal seams - 15-30 million years...Life of coal seams with current mining - 50 years

all from their website....


mmmm...coal......



sux



ps... this is just Loy yang... there is also hazlewood, yallourn, yallourn w, and a couple I cant remember... and the other 3 open cut holes that are FARQIN huge

[sels1]

I dont feel its necessary for NZ to go down the nuclear path at this stage - it has lots of issues as mentioned in the previous posts. Non polluting renewable resources are the best long term aim. We are fortunate here to have strong sunlight, plently of wind, good rainfall and some great tidal movements all of which can be harnessed. Technology is only just explanding in this area and will accellerate as fossil fuels become scarcer and more expensive. Japan is already cranking up production of solar cells and they will get increasingly cheaper with mass production. Intelligent building design and an more efficient distribution network are other areas where plenty of gains can be made. Although the Govt supports the Kyoto protocol, they have been lax over R&D and investment in this area. A good question for your candidate come election time. If we do things properly we can retain our clean/green image and never need to have to consider the nuclear option.

[James Deuce]

Interesting to see that most of the people supporting Nuclear power (with the notable exception of Blakamin) don't have kids.

Fission is a "stupid" technology. Even the waste from fast breeder and pebble reactors still kills organic material if you touch it. Fission byproducts are lethal for thousands of years. As a military weapon it is the grossest, most inelegant form of overkill ever invented. It has NO military purpose at all. It is a political tool, both in the energy sense and the "military" sense. Sure, build a reactor. But don't whinge when no one will take the waste off your hands when you realise that there are NO safe storage sites in NZ anywhere for Nuclear waste. It will end up in the water table and the food chain. You can count on it. The North Island is a geologically active lump of scoria rattled by earthquakes and volcanoes regularly. It also has a couple of nice big flood plains. Chuck the waste in the ground and it gets hurled forth. The Sth Is. is a jutting fold at the intersection of the Australo/Indus and Pacific tectonic plates. It wobbles a bit too. and it has a big flood plain on one side. And the whole country sits at the confluence of both violent weather patterns and a couple of large oceans.

One common thread I have noticed in the energy generation sector over the last 20 years is over stating fossil fuel negatives and under stating nuclear power generation negatives.

How many of you are aware that the planet generates far more CO2 that we EVER could? That the crust, and particularly the Mid-Atlantic trench belches forth trillions of cubic tonnes of the stuf every year? How many of you have ever bothered to question anything presented as a case for a particular energy source in detail? Don't say you don't have the skill or knowledge, because unlike any other person, living in any other time, you have access to more information, both theoretical and practical, than ever before.

I'd love to see Nuclear power in NZ, so long as it's Cold Fusion. Otherwise, fuck off.

In the meantime we have 10,000 years of coal based energy languishing in the Sth Island. There's also a bunch of technology that has been applied to automobiles that has substantially reduced noxious outputs from vehicles, despite the vehicle fleet growing. It is merely a question of scale to tame the more noxious elements of Coal Power Station effluvium. Except you're not allowed to research it, thanks to the "Green" political elements.

[Skunk]

I'd love to see Nuclear power in NZ, so long as it's Cold Fusion.

I thought that had been debunked. As in not ever possible except in theory? :spudwhat:

[Blakamin]

Interesting to see that most of the people supporting Nuclear power (with the notable exception of Blakamin) don't have kids.

.

I see what you're saying in the post, but after living in the morwell region for 6 months, with its 5 (?) coal burning plants and its 3-4 opencut mines, I dont want my children breathing shit that makes your "whites greyer" and your "colours greyer still!"

you shoulda seen the ex's parents pool.... (and it was indoors)

like I said... he worked (prolly still does) there and he knows it aint safe....


we could get the material from aussie, where they dig it out of a national park in NT... and send it back, where they bury it in the desert in SA... NZ dont need as much as the aussies are fuckin with everyday... and I'm an aussie...
makes me wanna move home... lol (insert radio-active teardrop here)


and still I prefer it to burning coal....


[edit] a funny bit from loy yang... cause all power stations need them....

Loy Yang Power welcomes enquiries into the use of its operator training simulator located in the power station.
It allows learner-operators to understand the complexities of the power station in a risk free environment, making it an extremely valuable tool

"Hi, I wanna open a powerplant... can I borrow ya simu.. simil... training bit??"

[Gen]

The first thing that sprung to mind was the chernobal disaster.
If (and that's a big if) NZ ever went down the nucleur path I would leave NZ.