$50 emergency locator beacon?

[mujambee]

I don't like a subscription charge either, but the Spot Messenger gives two way communication. The problem with a Personal Locator Beacon is the emergency services (or your friends and family who are alerted) will not know what is wrong, what type of rescue / medical attention is needed, or if it is a false alert - all this can take precious time to sort out.

That is a good point on the Spot system.

Anyhow, when I was in ambulances we usually didn't pay much attention to what was reported, and prepared for the worst possible situation. Most people don't know how to report an accident and tell you "He has a broken arm", and the poor guy may be bleeding inside. It's safer to take always the basic precautions and sort it out on site.

[Radar]

That is a good point on the Spot system.

Anyhow, when I was in ambulances we usually didn't pay much attention to what was reported, and prepared for the worst possible situation. Most people don't know how to report an accident and tell you "He has a broken arm", and the poor guy may be bleeding inside. It's safer to take always the basic precautions and sort it out on site.

If a locator beacon that is registered to a motorcyclist goes off, will an ambulance or rescue helicopter be sent? I doubt it, at least not for a long while. If a motorcyclist has internal bleeding or other serious injury, they will need medical attention ASAP. It is not like a yacht at sea or a lost tramper in the mountains - these people may not be able to make it to safety but will not need immediate medical help. The problem I see with beacons is that help may not be sent for a long time.

[Jantar]

.... The problem I see with beacons is that help may not be sent for a long time.

When an ELB is activated help is sent immediately it is detected by the satelite. The only delay is waiting for the satelite to pass over which is on average every 3 hours. An ELB should not be activated unless it IS an emergency (ie an accident in a remote area). The SAR people would be rather upset to send a helicopter to a road site for a flat tyre.

[mujambee]

When an ELB is activated help is sent immediately it is detected by the satelite. The only delay is waiting for the satelite to pass over which is on average every 3 hours. An ELB should not be activated unless it IS an emergency (ie an accident in a remote area). The SAR people would be rather upset to send a helicopter to a road site for a flat tyre.

The "satellite pass" wait happens only if your beacon has no GPS attached and you have not declared a route, so they need to triangulate your position.


Something that may be worth learning is: what rescue team will they send you?


Been doing a bit of research here and found out that, in my usual riding area, they have a "granted" 60 minutes to reach any point of the area with a rescue group (including any spot, not limited to roads) and 90 minutes to give medical assistance. That will probably take much less time if you are on a road.

So unless you can talk to them they are likely to send someone to "have a look". Here those people are specialists coming from a semi-military police force; but have only first aid training, no doctor there.

[Radar]

Spot Satellite Messenger gives text messenging anywhere. The cost is $115 USD per year, so this could be a good option for clubs.

There is a thread on Stromtrooper forum about the Spot Messenger. Many interesting comments about Spot, and PLB's. The general consensus is that Spot is worth it, and everyone agrees that either a Spot or PLB is necessary when traveling solo in remote areas. Most comments are from the USA but there is one from Australia.

See also this review on the GPS Magazine site. There are mixed comments. Spot may work better down here in the Southern Hemisphere, e.g. this comment: I have been using a SPOT unit for the past 7 weeks travelling South to North of Australia, and return. I was testing SPOT for usability, reliability and effectiveness and i must say I had no issues whatsoever using it dash mounted. When checking progress on Google, I found SPOT to have recorded when and where I was very accurately. Maybe Globalstar doesn't have the same problem in the southern hemisphere. SPOT works, I like it.

On Sunday I will be on a ride with someone who has a Spot Messenger; they will enter my email address into the unit so when I get back home I can see how effective it has been.

[Hitcher]

Can I vote again? I thought this was about emergency locator bacon.

[mujambee]

There is a thread on Stromtrooper forum about the Spot Messenger. Many interesting comments about Spot, and PLB's. The general consensus is that Spot is worth it, and everyone agrees that either a Spot or PLB is necessary when traveling solo in remote areas. Most comments are from the USA but there is one from Australia.

See also this review on the GPS Magazine site. There are mixed comments. Spot may work better down here in the Southern Hemisphere, e.g. this comment: I have been using a SPOT unit for the past 7 weeks travelling South to North of Australia, and return. I was testing SPOT for usability, reliability and effectiveness and i must say I had no issues whatsoever using it dash mounted. When checking progress on Google, I found SPOT to have recorded when and where I was very accurately. Maybe Globalstar doesn't have the same problem in the southern hemisphere. SPOT works, I like it.

Have a look here. Most posters there are pissed with spot.

One comment there: I had the unfortunate occasion to use the 911 feature when I assisted a few folks involved in a 5th wheel trailer accident. Emergency services were not promptly, if ever, notified by SPOT.

SPOT uses the GPS network to get a position (takes up to 20min), and the Globalstar network to transmit messages, but it has only uplink, which means that you don't really know if your message went through. Anyhow, that's the same with EPIRBS, so no big deal there.

The Globalstar satellites work better in the southern hemisphere, I've even read that some of their northern birds are already dead; and it looks like they are using a dying network.

I've found this website, with coverage maps for lots of networks, including the Globalstar one (there is a Satellite link before the country names).

On Sunday I will be on a ride with someone who has a Spot Messenger; they will enter my email address into the unit so when I get back home I can see how effective it has been.

Will you have online tracking? It may be interesting to track you realtime from the other side of the world

Can I vote again? I thought this was about emergency locator bacon.

¿Uh? This is about emergency locator beacons, isn't it?

[Radar]

Will you have online tracking? It may be interesting to track you realtime from the other side of the world

Not sure. If there is online tracking I will let you know.

Yes I did see the negative comments about Spot - and also noted that they were in the N hemisphere. I will certainly question the rider that has Spot on Sunday (hopefully they are not also a salesperson for Spot so I can get an honest review).

[mujambee]

On Sunday I will be on a ride with someone who has a Spot Messenger; they will enter my email address into the unit so when I get back home I can see how effective it has been.

So, could you try it?

[Jantar]

The "satellite pass" wait happens only if your beacon has no GPS attached and you have not declared a route, so they need to triangulate your position.
.....

I don't know just how your ELBs communicate in spain without a satelite to communicate with, but here in NZ we don't have nationwide cellphone coverage, and even GPS equiped ELBs still need the appropriate satelite. With a GPS equiped unit it just requires a single pass, with a non GPS equiped unit it requires at least 2 passes.

If I was to set off a beacon on my property (1 km from a road) I could expect a helicopter overhead aproximately 90 minutes after the satelite pass. If it was set off on a road then an ambulance and police would be dispatched by road.

[Radar]

So, could you try it?

The rider who was supposed to have the Spot Messenger was on the ride but I forgot completely about it - too much fun riding and chatting with everyone! She told me something about Google and email but I was busy taking pics & vids with my ear plugs in, and I could not figure what she was talking about. In any case, I did not receive the emails from along the route like she said would happen.

[CookMySock]

Have a look here. Most posters there are pissed with spot.

One comment there: I had the unfortunate occasion to use the 911 feature when I assisted a few folks involved in a 5th wheel trailer accident. Emergency services were not promptly, if ever, notified by SPOT.

Theres a huge amount of opinion stated as fact in that gpsmagazine article.

There isn't really a satellite available cheaply for this purpose, which is probably why there are few or no useable products on the market. I dunno why they don't look at an HF solution - it would be much much cheaper than a satellite based one.

Steve

[mujambee]

I don't know just how your ELBs communicate in spain without a satelite to communicate with, but here in NZ we don't have nationwide cellphone coverage, and even GPS equiped ELBs still need the appropriate satelite. With a GPS equiped unit it just requires a single pass, with a non GPS equiped unit it requires at least 2 passes.

It has nothing to do with the country you are in, it is how the comsat-sarsat system works. See here, there is a "Description" menu which tells you how it works.

The trick is that, even if you don't have a GPS enabled beacon, your distress signal will be picked up by a GEOSAR and relayed inmediately. If you have declared a route, emergency teams can be dispatched along that route even without an exact fix. That may be much faster than waiting for the 3 or 6 hour pass.

The rider who was supposed to have the Spot Messenger was on the ride but I forgot completely about it - too much fun riding and chatting with everyone! She told me something about Google and email but I was busy taking pics & vids with my ear plugs in, and I could not figure what she was talking about. In any case, I did not receive the emails from along the route like she said would happen.

Theres a huge amount of opinion stated as fact in that gpsmagazine article.

Too true. Looks to me like most problems come from the fact that the unit has only four buttons and four leds. A display telling you what's happening would have been a good addition. Some people say that battery life was a must in the design of the SPOT and that led to that poor design, including a cheap low-power GPS processor that needs a lot of time to pick up.

There isn't really a satellite available cheaply for this purpose, which is probably why there are few or no useable products on the market.

Spot is a subsidiary of Globalstar (which is the owner of the satellites).

[davereid]

I dunno why they don't look at an HF solution - it would be much much cheaper than a satellite based one.

It's because H.F. requires large antennas to radiate energy efficiently.

The 3.5 Mhz beacon you discussed needs an aerial. If you chose a half wave dipole it would be 40 metres long. Even a 1/4 antenna would be 20 metres long, and it would work poorly wihout a groundplane.

You can of course use a non-resonant antenna, but you will get very poor effective radiation.

At 406 MHz a 6" antenna works well, hence the trend for higher frequencies.