Race tyre heat cycles

[Quasievil]

i'm struggling to work out, why the big Q would need to even ask this question....

because... does he go fast enough to even warm up his tires??

(time for AJ to hide)

Oh Funny guy eh ........you will keep till saturday

[Mishy]

hj

Oooooohhh...I can feel the love! While I appreciate the fact that you feel the need to tell me I'm both old... and out of touch...I feel the need to tell you that I think you're full of shit.
.

Yes, well I expected that. You do bite Pete

You can bluster all you like big fellah, and i'm old enough to know (and respect) Mike Webb thankyou.
You seem to take this personally, it's not - just a simple point of fact regarding the undeniable difference between the tyres you remember, and tyres that are built now.
While you may be (have been) quite happy to use anything in any condition, many people out there would be well advised to take sensible advice on how they use their tyres, and how to get the best out of them.
Many many test's by ourselves, and our friends in Europe have shown this to be true, and the compound designers i talk with regularely back this up.

I raced most of my time (like you) without warmers, and well remember punting 125's and 250's around on cold skittery slicks. The world changed when I got warmers for the first time, and tyres started to last better.
Good for the confidence,and good for the pocket - fun fun fun !!!

All that, and not a single expletive

[Crasherfromwayback]

hj

Yes, well I expected that. You do bite Pete


I raced most of my time (like you) without warmers, and well remember punting 125's and 250's around on cold skittery slicks. The world changed when I got warmers for the first time, and tyres started to last better.
Good for the confidence,and good for the pocket - fun fun fun !!!

All that, and not a single expletive

That's because as old as I am...I've still got my own teeth!

I like that post...although I reckon it'd be way better with some nasty words.

I mean...if you had a great race...that'd sound ok. BUT...if you had a fucking fantastic race...that'd sound far better (to me anyway).

My point is not really about tyre warmers and modern tyres anyway...because believe it of not...I'm still in touch with what's going on. It's more that I think for motards...it's all good without them. They're smelly old dirtbikes after all.

[Mishy]

That's because as old as I am...I've still got my own teeth!

I like that post...although I reckon it'd be way better with some nasty words.

I mean...if you had a great race...that'd sound ok. BUT...if you had a fucking fantastic race...that'd sound far better (to me anyway).

My point is not really about tyre warmers and modern tyres anyway...because believe it of not...I'm still in touch with what's going on. It's more that I think for motards...it's all good without them. They're smelly old dirtbikes after all.

A bit like the big bad wolf . . . . . . . . . .

And yes, the fucken awesome races are FAR more momorable that the pretty good ones. Sometimes (for me) facts get in the way of being real interesting !

As far as Motards go, I agree that there are some fundamental differences between them and road racers. The "smelly old dirt bikes" just weren't designed for that tarmac stuff, and they stress the carcases and compounds differently due to the lack of weight, horsepower, and suspension loading. This makes things a little different (ask Pete Sayle) for the motards, but the fundamentals still apply to tyre behaviour.
My biggest question would be why so many peolpe choose tyres for Motards that are designed for something different, and will struggle to work with the dirt bike on the tarmac.
My belief is that a good choice would be a tyre that has a more supple carcase, and more flexible compound - more hyper sport road than genuine race. Most race tyres are designed for 600's, superbikes, or 250GP bikes, and they have a carcase made from rayon rather than the weaker nylon carcases of the road tyres.
Having said that, i think that whatever your choice, correct use of warmers will almost certainly help with every aspect of tyre behaviour, but that you could choose your tyres wisely if you don't have warmers, and still get great grip, easy warmup, and good life - even if outright grip is slightly reduced.
It's all about understanding how these things work.
One day i'll write a "novel" on it - that'll really bore the shit out of you !

[Crasherfromwayback]

A bit like the big bad wolf . . . . . . . . . .
One day i'll write a "novel" on it - that'll really bore the shit out of you !

Funnily enough...most of my mates call me Ren. You know...the foul mouthed lil Chihuahua. It's a fair call.

What you've said 'bout tyres is not in the slightest bit boring. Whilst I often hurl abuse and insults...it's normally because I'm looking for reactions and answers. Informed answers I like.

If you do write said novel...please include full page colour pictures of nude chickies and don't forget the profanities.

[Mishy]

If you do write said novel...please include full page colour pictures of nude chickies and don't forget the profanities.

perhaps you could tell where to find these pictures . . . . . . . .

[Crasherfromwayback]

perhaps you could tell where to find these pictures . . . . . . . .

Hopefully the memory stick in ya camera.

[Quasievil]

Fuck you two are talking crap.

"Dirty old dirt bikes" WTF!!! my Motard (and half the field) are probably more advanced technically that half the sportsbikes racing, as far as mine goes its a factory built KTM 525SMR (smr = super moto racer)ie it ain't a dirty old dirtbike its a highly engineered Motard built for Tarmac and some off road dirt sections.

Tyre warmers despite ya ravings offer an advantage so why the hell wouldnt we use them? suggesting we shouldnt on the basis of "they are dirty ole dirt bikes" is simply stupid frankly $250 bucks for an advantage is a cheap advantage.

lastly there is limited options for Motard tyres available, you can buy some specific Metzler drifts or import some, thats about it, most guys go with a sportsbike slick and they work fine for NZ style of racing. I have used Continental race attacks, Pirelli Slicks and currently on Pirelli Dragons, they all work fine and as a racer I will use any tyre I fucking like as long as it does the job well enough.

[ajturbo]

Fuck you two are talking crap.

"Dirty old dirt bikes" WTF!!! my Motard (and half the field) are probably more advanced technically that half the sportsbikes racing, as far as mine goes its a factory built KTM 525SMR (smr = super moto racer)ie it ain't a dirty old dirtbike its a highly engineered Motard built for Tarmac and some off road dirt sections.

Tyre warmers despite ya ravings offer an advantage so why the hell wouldnt we use them? suggesting we shouldnt on the basis of "they are dirty ole dirt bikes" is simply stupid frankly $250 bucks for an advantage is a cheap advantage.

lastly there is limited options for Motard tyres available, you can buy some specific Metzler drifts or import some, thats about it, most guys go with a sportsbike slick and they work fine for NZ style of racing. I have used Continental race attacks, Pirelli Slicks and currently on Pirelli Dragons, they all work fine and as a racer I will use any tyre I fucking like as long as it does the job well enough.

hahahah... i think they were just winding you up there matey...

hope your bring the oil this time!!!

[Quasievil]

hahahah... i think they were just winding you up there matey...

hope your bring the oil this time!!!

lol Yeah I know that dude, just adding some fuel for further discussion.

What oil ? I aint racing anyway tomorrow, Im there tho

[ajturbo]

lol Yeah I know that dude, just adding some fuel for further discussion.

What oil ? I aint racing anyway tomorrow, Im there tho

now i know YOUR going to be there... i wont be

sorry matey, would love to catch up over a beer, but it just not a good time this week.....

hope to see you at manfeild?

racing your DIRT bike?

[Quasievil]

hope to see you at manfeild?

racing your DIRT bike?

lol dont you freckin start Buell rider!!

Will be at Manfield not intending to race yet tho

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fuck you two are talking crap.

"Dirty old dirt bikes" WTF!!! my Motard (and half the field) are probably more advanced technically that half the sportsbikes racing, as far as mine goes its a factory built KTM 525SMR (smr = super moto racer)ie it ain't a dirty old dirtbike its a highly engineered Motard built for Tarmac and some off road dirt sections.

Me? Never! Hasn't your poxy old KTM still got a carb? Jesus...even my garden variety dirty old dirt bike is injected! Might even buy some 17" rims for it. Don't think I'll bother with the tyre warmers though.

Did you see how dirty all the bikes were at Taupo Sat? Disgusting.

P

[Robert Taylor]

Mate, things are a little different with tyre compounding now than they were 10 or 15 years ago !
For the sake of clarity - modern race compond tyres get eaten to death by rapid heat up or cool down. Not to mention the damage done to the surface of the tyre by being thrashed when below the lower limit of the designed operating temperature corridor. That's why all manufacturers list their race specific treaded tyres as "tyre warmer required"
The biggest advantage to running warmers (beyong that leery 1st turn on cold race tyres) is the lack of full heat cycles that damage the tyre, and also the gentle cool down once you switch the warmers off when they're still on the bike (we all do that, right ?)
If you run tyres like a Continental Race Street, then it's no problem, necause the are ver flexible when cold, and warm up quickly, but anything that is a compound marked race specific tyre simply has to have warmers to get the best performance and life out of them.
If you have super sticky tyres, do yourself a favour and get the best life and behaviour out of them by sticking the warmers on EVERY TIME YOU CAN ! Now repeat that 100 times so you don't forget

EXACTLY,and this is the 21st century although I note some people ( including one or two in high places) struggle with that fact. Peter Goddard was very interesting on the subject of tyre heat cycles, tyre warmers and also preheating the rear shocks on cold days. As approx 80 attendees of his recent suspension seminars will attest!
In most walks of life everything now seems to operate within finer margins, that is no different with motorcycle road racing. If motard riders want to use tyre warmers let em!

[Crasherfromwayback]

. If motard riders want to use tyre warmers let em!

I don't think it's about letting them if they want to...it's about (in my eyes) trying to keep costs down if you want to be competitive in what should be (once again in my eyes) a cheap class to race in.

You wanna run tyre warmers,shock warmers...have brolly dollies and pit boards...sweet as. Go and play with the big boys and girls. On road racing bikes.