Drink Driving Causing Death. It's murder, so why don't we do this here?

**LBD** · 26th March 2009, 16:32

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

No it isnt

see my previous post with a youtube link as to why not.

Yep all good...as good today as when I watched the originals back in the early 70's

**slowpoke** · 26th March 2009, 19:03

Originally Posted by Mikkel

Yes, I agree let's remove anything dangerous, tricky or tempting from our lives. It really is unfair of life to pose all of these difficult choices for the individual to deal with, let's pray that society some day gets it act together and ban everything that is bad (in anyone's opinion whatsoever), life would be much better then.

For the dim-witted that was sarcasm.

I'm sorry but you can not relegate any of the blame for wife beating or drink driving upon alcohol itself. There is a thing called individual resposibility and society is already doing way too much to remove it from our existence entirely.

Haha, bugger this "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" business, I reckon it's fuggin' great!

As I stated in my edit, I like (luuuuurve!) a beer myself, but if I sit down (over a beer) and think about the pro's and con's for banning alcohol it's a pretty one sided list. Luckily for me, but not lots of others, society is hedonistic and values the buzz, the loss of inhibitions, the tax generated, the beautification of aesthetically challenged people etc etc over reducing road deaths, general violence, health problems etc.

Personally I have no problems with alcohol and various assorted challenges in life. Someday I hope to remove the training wheels off my bike and with hard work, courage and an ounce of luck I hope to leave the familial home before I turn 45. I meet even meet a girl....(blush)

Seriously, I probably used the incorrect terminology regarding alcohol. It's not so much a "root cause" as an "enabler". It enables the losers who like to go 'round in groups and bash innocent pedestrians walking home, or enables the oxygen thieves dropping bricks off motorway overbridges, it enables the sacks of shit who take out their angst on the missus after a couple of bevvies too many. Alcohol removes their inhibitions and they actually do the things they've previously only thought about.

So it becomes a balancing act: hedonistic enjoyment of the many vs the pain and death of a few. Which is more important? Is the balance right?

Personal responsibility? It still doesn't compute to allow people to consume a beverage that is known to impair judgement and then expect them to show good judgement. Sure, most of us have no problems, even with the wobbly boots on, but there's a sizeable percentage who have no common sense even when stone cold sober.

**Genestho** · 26th March 2009, 19:08

Originally Posted by candor

Its more that a quarter in NZ - that is based only on convictions last 4 years I think and only looks at dead divers (not considering those killed by surviving recidivists_. Some research shows its more like over half such fatalities by recidivists (Bailey 1998 looked at loger term record giving much higher figure). Also those caught have usually driven drunk legion times per arrest so on that basis you could even stretch to say its almost all a recidivist based issue.
Mot & LTNZ won't make the true recidivism stats public info for obvious reasons. They also cancelled the traffic record assessment part of the current ongoing deceased drink & drug driver study.

I find it interesting you say that, because the last time recidivism was addressed on a grand scale I believe was in 2001, am I correct in asking that, because of human rights issues, reccomendations were not followed through? Hands were tied?

Thats a stab in the dark question though based on recollection...is it strange that Baileys info is the only referencable available research? I do have other local info but not so many letters after the name of the author...

Not that it's outdated its still completely applicable, but can't find much more research in NZ than what he had made available.

Also a contact I have, with a few letters after his name was turned down in his Scoping paper on Issues etc of Recidivist drink drivers, which covered all aspects from law, behavioural, rehab, overseas research, bac limits...turned down...he has some bloody good ideas and stacks of reliable and attributable research.

I find it oddly misleading, that there is nothing available for the public on Recidivism figures.
And we know that would balance the debate back where it belongs...IMHO...

Gone and dragged my own thread RIGHT off topic now...eeeeeeeeek

**LBD** · 26th March 2009, 20:21

Originally Posted by slowpoke

So it becomes a balancing act: hedonistic enjoyment of the many vs the pain and death of a few. Which is more important? Is the balance right?

The scenario you describe above does not relate to drink driving. Having a zero tolerance to drink driving will not take away the hedonistic enjoyment of the many, it would only forceably promote a responsible attitude to drink driving, which we as a collective society have shown we cannot acheive with rational and now require a big stick to be waved at us.

Who would really suffer hardship from a zero tolerance to drink driving? I know there would be a great reduction to the alchol related deaths and injuries if this was the case.

**Usarka** · 26th March 2009, 20:25

Originally Posted by LBD

Who would really suffer hardship from a zero tolerance to drink driving? I know there would be a great reduction to the alchol related deaths and injuries if this was the case.

A couple of possible unintended scenarios:

1) Whitu has a couple of beers at the pub after work as he's been doing for years. Hey Whitu, it's illegal now bro you'll get busted. Well fuck it, if i'm going to get busted I might as well get really pissed.

2) Hey guys, want to catch up for a drink? Nah it's too far and we can't drive, how about everyone comes over to my place it's nice and close and a cabs real cheap or you can crash on the floor. What would have been a couple of drinks and then leave turns into a big home session. Everyone passes out around 4.30am. Except for jake who wants some eggs and smashes his wife in the face cause he's so pissed.

3) My grandparents who always have 1 small sherry after dinner come for a feed and say "bugger this PC nonsence we've been doing it since the war". They get busted on the way home, become housebound and bitter with the way the country is going, and kark it 6 months later.

**Genestho** · 26th March 2009, 20:33

Originally Posted by Usarka

A couple of possible unintended scenarios:

1) Whitu has a couple of beers at the pub after work as he's been doing for years. Hey Whitu, it's illegal now bro you'll get busted. Well fuck it, if i'm going to get busted I might as well get really pissed.

2) Hey guys, want to catch up for a drink? Nah it's too far and we can't drive, how about everyone comes over to my place it's nice and close and a cabs real cheap or you can crash on the floor. What would have been a couple of drinks and then leave turns into a big home session. Everyone passes out around 4.30am. Except for jake who wants some eggs and smashes his wife in the face cause he's so pissed.

3) My grandparents who always have 1 small sherry after dinner come for a feed and say "bugger this PC nonsence we've been doing it since the war". They get busted on the way home, become housebound and bitter with the way the country is going, and kark it 6 months later.

LOL! Oh now you're taking the piss dude

Tragedy in'it?
Lifes tough

**Usarka** · 26th March 2009, 20:36

Originally Posted by The Guzzi Widow

LOL! Oh now you're taking the piss dude

Tragedy in'it?
Lifes tough

I've been stuck inside too long...... that's what not being able to ride or drive does to you, it makes you insane!

**Genestho** · 26th March 2009, 20:38

Originally Posted by Usarka

I've been stuck inside too long...... that's what not being able to ride or drive does to you, it makes you insane!

Ahhh, well get a job ya lazy so in so.... J/K

**Mikkel** · 26th March 2009, 21:53

Originally Posted by 98tls

Bullshit,whilst lying on the BBQ seat outside the bar at the March Hare you were not moving but still managed to crash onto the floor.

You must have been hallucinating, what's in that tobacco of yours? No such thing has ever happened. If it had I sure as hell would have remembered it.

... I think.

Ok, I'm in let's ban this shit.

j/k